Question about the F-22 and it's radar.

"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers. The i860, the
predicessor of the i960, was designed for the i432 MPP system. The i432
nearly bankrupted Intel and caused them to have to sell 16% of the company,
a controlling interest, to IBM. The Brits were the only ones to ever get
any software to run on the i432 MPP and Lochkeed is lucky to have them
writing the software.

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:43:06 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-04-391

"The F/A-22 is dependent on its onboard computers and software to
perform its mission. Unlike other fighter aircraft, it has a highly
advanced,integrated avionics system capable of detecting, identifying,
and engaging the enemy at ranges beyond a pilot’s vision. The key to the
F/A-22 avionics lies in its fully integrated core architecture and its
two central, networked computers called common integrated processors
(CIP).CIPs use very high-speed integrated circuits to collect, process,
and integrate data and signals from the aircraft’s sensors. CIP serves
as the “brains” for the F/A-22’s integrated avionics system and is
unique to this aircraft.

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX microprocessor,which is
used strictly for avionics processing. This microprocessor is based on
1990’s technology and has a 32-bit processor that operates at speeds of
25mhz." etc.

Caught bull****ting again Splappy?


Phil
--
Great Tarverisms #3

No, a flap makes the wing thicker and thereby
creates more bernoulli lift.

John P. Tarver, MS/PE

rec.aviation.military
09 January 2003

"Phil Miller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:43:06 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-04-391

"The F/A-22 is dependent on its onboard computers and software to
perform its mission. Unlike other fighter aircraft, it has a highly
advanced,integrated avionics system capable of detecting, identifying,
and engaging the enemy at ranges beyond a pilot's vision. The key to the
F/A-22 avionics lies in its fully integrated core architecture and its
two central, networked computers called common integrated processors
(CIP).CIPs use very high-speed integrated circuits to collect, process,
and integrate data and signals from the aircraft's sensors. CIP serves
as the "brains" for the F/A-22's integrated avionics system and is
unique to this aircraft.

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX microprocessor,which is
used strictly for avionics processing. This microprocessor is based on
1990's technology and has a 32-bit processor that operates at speeds of
25mhz." etc.

Caught bull****ting again Splappy?

Not me.

Do you even have a clue what you cut and pasted, moron? As Mr. cook pointed
out, the i960 is very obsolete.

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:50:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

Not me.

Do you even have a clue what you cut and pasted, moron? As Mr. cook pointed
out, the i960 is very obsolete.

Obsolete? Ok. So?

Let's simplify this thread a bit.

"Felger Carbon" said;

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

You said;

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

I found this;

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-04-391

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX microprocessor,which is
used strictly for avionics processing.

Pretty obvious I think.


Phil
--
Great Tarverisms #7

Pitot: French word meaning tube.

John

alt.disasters.aviation
25 February 2002

"Phil Miller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:50:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

Not me.

Do you even have a clue what you cut and pasted, moron? As Mr. cook
pointed
out, the i960 is very obsolete.

Obsolete? Ok. So?

Let's simplify this thread a bit.

"Felger Carbon" said;

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the
F-22.

You said;

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

I found this;

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-04-391

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX microprocessor,which
is
used strictly for avionics processing.

Pretty obvious I think.

Yep, you somehow believe because Phill Miller is clueless, others must be
clueless as well. I was correct and what Felger wrote is wrong. I do
wonder at Phil's reading disability sometimes. The i960 has no application
outside Lockmart's MPP.

In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX microprocessor,which
is
used strictly for avionics processing.

Pretty obvious I think.

Yep, you somehow believe because Phill Miller is clueless, others must be
clueless as well. I was correct and what Felger wrote is wrong. I do
wonder at Phil's reading disability sometimes. The i960 has no application
outside Lockmart's MPP.

Not true. The i960 was used on several other programs. I worked on some
of them myself.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

The primary processor in CIP is the Intel i960MX
microprocessor,which
is
used strictly for avionics processing.

Pretty obvious I think.

Yep, you somehow believe because Phill Miller is clueless, others must
be
clueless as well. I was correct and what Felger wrote is wrong. I do
wonder at Phil's reading disability sometimes. The i960 has no
application
outside Lockmart's MPP.

Not true. The i960 was used on several other programs. I worked on some
of them myself.

We have several statements including the GAO claiming that the i960 is now
F-22 only. I stated in my other posts that the i960 was a printer control
processor in the real world.(so obsolete) The real problem for Lockmart is
that they are attempting to build an MPP that Intel could not build
themselves and the continueing structure risk mitigation.

In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

There were several flavors of the i960, most of which were purely
commercial and were used as printer drivers among other things.
The MX was the military version that had the 33rd bit for security, which
was unique among the other processors and is one of the reasons the
i960 was selected in the first place.

(rest of off-topic stuff snipped)

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

There were several flavors of the i960, most of which were purely
commercial and were used as printer drivers among other things.

The i960 is the follow on of the i860, from which Intel produced the i432
MPP. The i432 was such a failure that Intel was nearly bankrupt and was
forced to sell a controlling interest of 16% of Intel to IBM; it was through
this transaction that IBM was able to corner the 8088 market. The i960
found application as a printer processor in the commercial world until some
years ago. Lockmart got the bright idea of using the i960 to replicate
Intel's i432 MPP success in the Raptor.

snip of Harry making things up

In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

"Felger Carbon" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , John Cook
wrote:


Just the official reports!!, Lockheed has only purchased enough
processors for 155 F-22's because there out of production, the
demand
for Air to ground operations has increased the demand on
processing
power, something the original processors are not quite upto hence
the
_need_ for the 'upgrade'.

So the processors are obsolete, (too old)... the Avionic
architecture
needs to be replaced before the F-22 can become the F/A-22 because
the
present system is based on the old processors and rewriting the
code
is pointless on an obsolete system, that would only support half
of
the F-22 fleet

Methinks there's some confusion there between processors, avionics
architecture, and software.
While it's true that Intel tried to shut down i960 production
causing a
chinese fire drill, there are enough assets to get by until a new
processor is
ready.

Full disclosu I'm a retired electrical engineer. I specialized in
high-end embedded microprocessors, which the "i960" in the F-22 is. I
know nothing about designing aircraft. I do know a little about the
Intel processor at the heart of the F-22:

The i960MX was designed by Intel specifically and solely for the F-22.

Nope, the i960 is a processor designed to control printers.

There were several flavors of the i960, most of which were purely
commercial and were used as printer drivers among other things.

The i960 is the follow on of the i860, from which Intel produced the i432
MPP. The i432 was such a failure that Intel was nearly bankrupt and was
forced to sell a controlling interest of 16% of Intel to IBM; it was through
this transaction that IBM was able to corner the 8088 market. The i960
found application as a printer processor in the commercial world until some
years ago. Lockmart got the bright idea of using the i960 to replicate
Intel's i432 MPP success in the Raptor.

snip of Harry making things up

Well John, I was there. Funny, I didn't see you name listed on the IPT.
Mine was.

All this i860 & 432 stuff is just smoke that has no bearing on the decision
to use the i960. Lockheed had no say, BTW, in the i960 decision. That
was an internal Hughes decision and we had a lot of selling to do with
our customer. The stuff you snipped has the real reason for the
selection of the MX over the competition. I was there.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur