Is the 200ft below Min Finish Height Rule Working?

Was it safe? Yes.

As Kirk points out at no time, once he was below 1000 ft, did he not have a landing option directly in front of him.

Was it fun? I doubt it, no one wants to cut it that close.
Is it good for US contests? It depends on the location, Uvalde, Hobbs, no. Somewhere in the middle of Kansas, could be.

But let's look at some other questions?

Was the pilot familiar with the area?
Did the pilot know he had landing options within the last 1-2 km


As has been pointed out on RAS before, many of the European teams do a good reconnaissance of the approach areas to the airport and determine what fields are landable on the approaches to the airport. This kind of preparation on the ground is really beneficial when you are on a marginal glide.

Another thing to consider is that the finish on that task was a 3 km cylinder and according to IGC rules, once you have crossed the finish line you don't have to land at the airport. According to his IGC file, he stopped his landing roll 2.5 km inside the cylinder and crossed the cylinder at 250ft AGL. since he didn't have to land at the airport to get all the points, he had no rules incentive to continue to the airport. Therefore, one could presume that in his determination he had sufficient height to land at the airport.

From what I see in the video, he was right - he could make it.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:55:44 PM UTC-7, Dave Springford wrote:
Was it safe? Yes.



As Kirk points out at no time, once he was below 1000 ft, did he not have a landing option directly in front of him.



Was it fun? I doubt it, no one wants to cut it that close.

Is it good for US contests? It depends on the location, Uvalde, Hobbs, no. Somewhere in the middle of Kansas, could be.



But let's look at some other questions?



Was the pilot familiar with the area?

Did the pilot know he had landing options within the last 1-2 km





As has been pointed out on RAS before, many of the European teams do a good reconnaissance of the approach areas to the airport and determine what fields are landable on the approaches to the airport. This kind of preparation on the ground is really beneficial when you are on a marginal glide.



Another thing to consider is that the finish on that task was a 3 km cylinder and according to IGC rules, once you have crossed the finish line you don't have to land at the airport. According to his IGC file, he stopped his landing roll 2.5 km inside the cylinder and crossed the cylinder at 250ft AGL. since he didn't have to land at the airport to get all the points, he had no rules incentive to continue to the airport. Therefore, one could presume that in his determination he had sufficient height to land at the airport.



From what I see in the video, he was right - he could make it.

I agree with Dave on this. Its the JWGC, they might be young but they are good. He had plenty of options and seems to already know where he would be landing. Sure, no one wants a finish like that, but it shows it can be done with prior planning. World Teams scout out all the landable fields ahead of time, not only around the airport, but out on course.
It may surprize you, that some of our top pilots do the same scouting when they go to a US National. Some even arrive early and drive around the task area looking over the fields.

#711.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:06:55 PM UTC-8, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:

It may surprize you, that some of our top pilots do the same scouting when they go to a US National. Some even arrive early and drive around the task area looking over the fields.

#711.

Guess why I've been spending time around Montague Tom.

This is a very good idea, not just for final glide. I've scouted unmarked runways, roads, better fields in a number of task areas in the spots where airfields are spotty and terrain is - um - unpleasant. The best ones go into my personal waypoint database in case they are needed.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:54:51 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:06:55 PM UTC-8, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:



It may surprize you, that some of our top pilots do the same scouting when they go to a US National. Some even arrive early and drive around the task area looking over the fields.



#711.



Guess why I've been spending time around Montague Tom.



This is a very good idea, not just for final glide. I've scouted unmarked runways, roads, better fields in a number of task areas in the spots where airfields are spotty and terrain is - um - unpleasant. The best ones go into my personal waypoint database in case they are needed.

Yes, its true. One of our very best US Team pilots who has almost as many National titles as KS, always arrives several days early at a Nationals. They take one full day just driving around, remarking maps and looking over off airport landing sites. Going so far even to check to see how much it might have rained in one area versus another.
I know others who use IGC files from those who do well at a contest site, looking at their traces where they stopped and thermaled at and marking those spots on a map to see if theirs any correlation(if thats the right word) going on.
Watching uTube videos and not being their, then trying to past judgement, is rather extremely difficult to do. Those pilots who make it to the WJGC's are good and they do task extremely hard. I believe at the last WJSC that Boyd Willat flew in, he did finish the task, but landed off airport. Down in Argentina, the same was happening. One day that Kawa won, he simply out drifted everyone to make the greatest distance. Its the contest site that allows this. Some of our sites just don't offer this. Thats where good judgement and wise decisions are needed.
Maybe best to say its been a good discussion. Several years ago we had clouds, then silly Walmart cell phones, now this. Next year might be more chemicals and better toilet paper in the potties are needed.....hell if I know..

#711.

Major snippage...

I agree with Dave on this. Its the JWGC, they might be young but they are
good. He had plenty of options and seems to already know where he would be
landing. Sure, no one wants a finish like that, but it shows it can be done
with prior planning. World Teams scout out all the landable fields ahead of
time, not only around the airport, but out on course. It may surprize you,
that some of our top pilots do the same scouting when they go to a US
National. Some even arrive early and drive around the task area looking
over the fields.

#711

FWIW, no need to wait until "you're a nationals level contest pilot to
pre-scout fields"...a thought I'd hope would be obvious to every (potential)
XC pilot...but which I know for a fact, isn't! :-)

I started scouting fields (& brain picking, and cross-checking
information/feedback) before I had my license, so foreign to my brain was the
very idea of not landing at the gliderport of my takeoff, much a
never-before-seen field. Continued to pre-scout over the next 3+ decades.
Eventually moving to the intermountain west (where fields in the hills can be
few, far-between, misplaced on maps [and now databases], etc., etc.), simply
increased my motivation for "ground truth." Since us northern hemispherians
have reason to believe spring will (eventually) arrive, I've found spring a
Great Time to use those unsoarable (rainy, foggy, dreary) days for extended
day excursions into the hills/boonies to scope out ground truth...good for
one's personal soaring safety/confidence, can be good for the fambly and
mutts, good for everyone's souls...

Bob - never a "real contest pilot" - W.