Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!"

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

Nobody seriously suggests that trains would be competitive with aircraft
for 3000 miles.

Actually, people in this thread have. Look back a couple of days.

But for transportation, they're insanely easier to target.

Insanely? If they are so easy, why didn't the IRA, Basques, Red Army
Brigade, or Bader Meinhof take more advantage of that weakness?

Not as flashy.

Note the *three* separate attempts at hitting high-speed rail in Europe
in the last few weeks (the Spanish bomb, the French extortion attempt,
and the German derailing try). All low-dollar, minimal effort,
high-return operations.

The next attack might be in the lineup for tickets for Disney World,
at a shopping center during Christmas shopping, on a ferry boat, and
so on.

Small areas, compared to even *one* short-distance train track.

Have you been on the Staten Island ferry lately?

Nope, but unless they've bought new supertanker-sized ferries, they're
still pretty much limited to hitting them at two places on land, or
trying a water-launched attack (not as easy as it looks).

On the other hand, a 100 mile train track has one hundred linear miles
of potential target. There's no real way to get around that.

And while it takes some work to kill a plane or a ship, all it takes for
high-speed rail is to drop something heavy and solid on the tracks at
the right time, or break the tracks right before the train gets there.
Witness the German attack, which was just some steel pieces bolted to
the tracks (thank goodness the people who tried it underengineered their
fittings).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:

But for transportation, they're insanely easier to target.

Insanely? If they are so easy, why didn't the IRA, Basques, Red Army
Brigade, or Bader Meinhof take more advantage of that weakness?

Not as flashy.

You don't think a train filled with people involved in a derailment
wouldn't attract significant attention, given all the media focus when
there is an accident? Especially given the national pride in their high
speed rail systems.

Note the *three* separate attempts at hitting high-speed rail in Europe
in the last few weeks (the Spanish bomb, the French extortion attempt,
and the German derailing try). All low-dollar, minimal effort,
high-return operations.

Again, my question. Why wouldn't other terror groups have taken
advantage of that, if things are so easy to achieve an end result.

The next attack might be in the lineup for tickets for Disney World,
at a shopping center during Christmas shopping, on a ferry boat, and
so on.

Small areas, compared to even *one* short-distance train track.

Have you been on the Staten Island ferry lately?

Nope, but unless they've bought new supertanker-sized ferries, they're
still pretty much limited to hitting them at two places on land, or
trying a water-launched attack (not as easy as it looks).

No, it doesn't have to be that exotic. They simply carry something
aboard in the crowd, like they did on the Madrid trains. No place where
the public gathers is immune from that type of attack, and we can't
protect them all.

On the other hand, a 100 mile train track has one hundred linear miles
of potential target. There's no real way to get around that.

Yes, they are exposed, but they don't seem to be the target of choice
for sabotage. Occasionally, they are successful, but it hasn't been too
often, and the results have usually been relatively minor.

And while it takes some work to kill a plane or a ship, all it takes for
high-speed rail is to drop something heavy and solid on the tracks at
the right time, or break the tracks right before the train gets there.
Witness the German attack, which was just some steel pieces bolted to
the tracks (thank goodness the people who tried it underengineered their
fittings).

It's not as easy as it looks, given that it has been tried, and has only
rarely been successful. Trains manage to hit things left on the track
all the time without too much damage in the normal course of their
operation.

James Robinson wrote:
You don't think a train filled with people involved in a derailment
wouldn't attract significant attention, given all the media focus when
there is an accident?

In the USA, Amtrak derailments are common place and attract just a mention in
the national newscasts. The terrorists would have to warn of bombs on tracks
in advance so that when it happens, the media would go into a terrorist frienzie.

But if there were a new york subway derailment or fire, people would
immediatly suspect terrorism.

The real question is whether Al Queda want to keep Bush regime in power or
not. If they make an attack against the USA between now and the election, it
would influence the outcome.

But I am not sure how. Would americans wake and and see that all the measures
the Bush regime has done did nothing to protect them, or would they fall back
into the protective custody of their Bush "father figure" who would tell
americans to trust him and that he would work even harder to protect them from
the evil doers ?

My guess is that an attack now on the USA would result in the Bush regime
sending more troups to Iraq and finding some sort of way to tell americans
that this is to prevent further attacks against the USA.

Following up to James Robinson

Note the *three* separate attempts at hitting high-speed rail in Europe
in the last few weeks (the Spanish bomb, the French extortion attempt,
and the German derailing try). All low-dollar, minimal effort,
high-return operations.

Again, my question. Why wouldn't other terror groups have taken
advantage of that, if things are so easy to achieve an end result.

Its worth noting that even adding in terrorist casualties its
still much safer in a train than in a car.

Were we to stop using trains to defeat terrorism, it would just
move somewhere else where groups of people are together until we
just hid alone in our homes.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:10:38 +0100, The Reids wrote:

Were we to stop using trains to defeat terrorism, it would just
move somewhere else where groups of people are together until we
just hid alone in our homes.

In fact, if you stopped using trains, it would mean that terrorism is defeating
you, rather. One of the keys to fight terrorism is to go on with your lives and
let intelligence handdle the terrorists (yes, intelligence - not a massive
military offensive; you must infiltrate the terrorist organizations and fight
them from within. And after you've taken care of their leaders that way, you
may later mount a military offensive to finish off any isolated pockets of
terrorists that may remain. Remember, many terrorists are terrorists because
they have never been offered a better deal, IOW, they've been brainwashed since
childhood, but the process can be reversed while they're still young enough)

--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(

remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

Following up to machf

In fact, if you stopped using trains, it would mean that terrorism is defeating
you, rather. One of the keys to fight terrorism is to go on with your lives and
let intelligence handdle the terrorists (yes, intelligence - not a massive
military offensive; you must infiltrate the terrorist organizations and fight
them from within. And after you've taken care of their leaders that way, you
may later mount a military offensive to finish off any isolated pockets of
terrorists that may remain. Remember, many terrorists are terrorists because
they have never been offered a better deal, IOW, they've been brainwashed since
childhood, but the process can be reversed while they're still young enough)

Exactly, the only thing I would add is to eradicate any part of
their grevances which are justified.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap