US Air Force survival gun?

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...

Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea is
"not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all of 3
Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre
ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio
beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might
actually improve your chances of living until rescue.

Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need
to do in order to survive?

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.

--

FF

(Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...

Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea is
"not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all of 3
Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre
ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio
beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might
actually improve your chances of living until rescue.

Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need
to do in order to survive?

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.

Not really. The "angry wildlife" he mentioned is just expanded
to include assholes standing on two legs and armed with
rifles...

"Escaping from an unflyable aircraft" doesn't mean launching a
full scale attack on the nearest military garrison just because
you are in the neighborhood and in a bad mood.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

From: (Fred the Red Shirt)


"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...

Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea is
"not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all of 3
Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre
ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio
beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might
actually improve your chances of living until rescue.

Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need
to do in order to survive?

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.

--

FF

Aircrews are taught escape and evasion(E&E). Unless you are Rambo with an
unlimited amount of ammunition an no need to eat or drink you will have almost
no chance of surviving or affecting the war if you take on the enemy. You can,
however E&E and see what information you can pick up on your way. That
information and your skills have more effect on the war than you getting killed
trying to take out an enemy or two. For one thing very few aircrewmen are
infantry qualfied, USMC excepted, and the bad guys probably are.

You are better off finding a way to make sure you are rescued and can survive
until you are.

In this sense the survival kit is essentially the same as what you would need
if you were lost in the words.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then, because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

(SteveM8597) wrote in message ...
WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then, because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

How so? Don't they teach both?

--

FF

(Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:

(SteveM8597) wrote in message ...
WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then, because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

How so? Don't they teach both?

I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival
school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush,
Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than
panic is your enemy)
--

-Gord.

In article ,
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

How so? Don't they teach both?

I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival
school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush,
Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than
panic is your enemy)


In the USN all aircrew have to go through SERE. I'm sure the USAF
probably has something similar. At least when I was in, the mandatory
survival training (beyond extensive water survival training) was about
week in the Eglin AFB wilderness (no adversaries), a few days in the
desert (north of Calexico), and about a week in the semi-forested Warner
Springs (Calif) area training in survival in combat situations (the last
few days with "enemies."

There were also jungle survival (in the PI) and cold weather training
(in Washington), but those weren't mandatory. What was mandatory is that
all aircrews go through SERE; train to survive while evading as well as
spend time as a "prisoner."



--Mike

USAFland survival school consisted of 1 - 2 weeks in evasion, resistance, and
escape training, and a week total on wilderness survival techniques. The week
was spent in class and on a four day camp/trek experience The trek included
evading the "enemy" and spending time with . If you got captured, you
supposedly went back the the beginning of the trek and started over. The trek
was rigorous enough that people died from time to time. The "campout" was
mostly shelter building, familiarization with edible vegetation, and butchering
and cooking a white domestic bunny in the event you were able to trap or snare
some meat. The emphasis was on non firearm use because even if you had
firearms, you'r eventually run out of ammo.

The jungle and arctic schools also spent some time on edible veggies and
shelter. In my mind, the majority of time was focused on not getting caught
or lost, and conduct it you were caught, not living off the land.

Steve



WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.


Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

How so? Don't they teach both?

I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival
school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush,
Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than
panic is your enemy)
--

-Gord.

Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because
they are teaching people the wrong stuff.

How so? Don't they teach both?

One teachs escape and evasion the other teaches living off the land long enough
to get picked up, ie first aid, finding making shelter, finding food and water,
comunicating and signalling, and orienteering. There isn't much emphasis on
being the great white meat hunter, mostly just acknowledgement that you can do
things like snare or trap. The SERE training is how to keep from being caught
and if caught, how to conduct yourself and survive. I don't remember any
mention of the use of firearms in the four I went through, land, water, jungle,
and arctic.

I also was an avid backpacker and put survival on my trips in the Sierra,
Bitterroots, and Wind River in somewhat of a different category relative to
techniques and objectives..

Steve

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...

Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea
is
"not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all
of 3
Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre
ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio
beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might
actually improve your chances of living until rescue.

Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need
to do in order to survive?

WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind
enemy lines in time of war.

A lone downed airman -or lone downed crew for that matter- isn't
in a position to get into fire fights: there's just no way they can have
brought enough fire power with them. Not getting captured means
stealth and recovery. Survival means not ****ing off the more heavily
armed people around you, water, shelter in bad weather and food.
In that order.
A good knife can be used stealthily in making shelter, some places
getting water and food. Perhaps a gun with subsonic ammo would
be sufficiently comforting and useful for small game in a long term
situation to be worth while.