GAO Report: GA Security Threat

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
|
| I can't see much of a difference for the world with Saddam missing (he
| isn't, really, by the way). I am now absolutely certain - as most news
| watchers - that Saddam didn't pose nearly the threat that some were led
| to believe. There are no WMD, period.
|

Saddam's own military commanders all believed that Saddam had WMD. They have
told investigators that they still believe it.

I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.
If you can refer me to documented statements by several such
persons I'd appreciate it. Seriously. I suspect you've been
hosed.

--

FF

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
| "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | I can't see much of a difference for the world with Saddam missing (he
| | isn't, really, by the way). I am now absolutely certain - as most news
| | watchers - that Saddam didn't pose nearly the threat that some were
led
| | to believe. There are no WMD, period.
| |
|
| Saddam's own military commanders all believed that Saddam had WMD. They
have
| told investigators that they still believe it.
|
| I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
| weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.

Well, I heard it on NPR.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:44:15 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

| I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
| weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.

Well, I heard it on NPR.

Why, then it must be true! ;-)

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
| "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | I can't see much of a difference for the world with Saddam missing (he
| | isn't, really, by the way). I am now absolutely certain - as most news
| | watchers - that Saddam didn't pose nearly the threat that some were
led
| | to believe. There are no WMD, period.
| |
|
| Saddam's own military commanders all believed that Saddam had WMD. They
have
| told investigators that they still believe it.
|
| I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
| weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.

Well, I heard it on NPR.

Do you recall the context? E.g. did the NPR speaking head say that or
did the NPR speaking head quote someone else as saying that, or
was someone else being interviewed who said that or did they play
statements from 'all' of Sadam Hussein's own military commanders?
Were ANY of the commanders mentioned by name?

I have speculated that the Iraqi military was so weakened by the
1991 war and ensuing sanctions that Saddam Hussein created the
impression that he was hiding WMDs as a bluff to forstall
military action against his regime from outside or within. But
I don't claim that to be anything but my own speculation.

Let's not forget that he only controlled about 2/3 of his own
country and his control over half of that was marginal.

The man to whom I referred was a defector who was interviewed
in a PBS Frontline broadcast. I'm sorry to say that I do not
remember his name.

--

FF

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message |
| Do you recall the context?

It was a report from an analyst who is involved in looking for WMD.

It is credible to me because from the very beginning of the war military
authorities have been saying that captured personnel were "cooperating" in
the search for WMD. They probably did believe that other commanders had WMD.
Then the interrogation team would go to those commanders who would say, "No,
we had no WMD in our unit, but so-and-so had them."

They all believed that Iraq had WMD, but that these weapons were all
assigned to some other unit. Of course, all these commanders may not have
been lied to by Saddam, but they simply believed the photos and other stuff
presented by Colin Powell at the UN. Then we are left with the question of
why Saddam seems to have gone to such great lengths to appear to be hiding
WMD when in fact he had none.

Or maybe he really did have WMD, but had no chance to deploy them since they
were all hidden away in inaccessible places. They could have been buried
deep in the sand like the Iraqi Air Force, the location known only to a few,
and those few either dead or in hiding. In that event looking for WMD will
be a lot like looking for the Lost Dutchman mine, the object of treasure
hunters and book authors for centuries to come.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message |
| Do you recall the context?

It was a report from an analyst who is involved in looking for WMD.

Thank you. I'd be more trusting of a UN analyst looking for WMD, than
I would of a US analyst for obvous reasons.


It is credible to me because from the very beginning of the war military
authorities have been saying that captured personnel were "cooperating" in
the search for WMD. They probably did believe that other commanders had WMD.
Then the interrogation team would go to those commanders who would say, "No,
we had no WMD in our unit, but so-and-so had them."

Had I been captured, I would have cooperated too. If indeed Saddam
Hussein was bluffing it obviously backfired. But the simplest
explanation consistant with observed fact remains that the Declaration
in the Fall of 2002 was reasonably accurate.


They all believed that Iraq had WMD, but that these weapons were all
assigned to some other unit. Of course, all these commanders may not have
been lied to by Saddam, but they simply believed the photos and other stuff
presented by Colin Powell at the UN. Then we are left with the question of
why Saddam seems to have gone to such great lengths to appear to be hiding
WMD when in fact he had none.

Or maybe he really did have WMD, but had no chance to deploy them since they
were all hidden away in inaccessible places. They could have been buried
deep in the sand like the Iraqi Air Force, the location known only to a few,
and those few either dead or in hiding. In that event looking for WMD will
be a lot like looking for the Lost Dutchman mine, the object of treasure
hunters and book authors for centuries to come.

Unlike the lost Dutchman's treasure, WMDs rapidly deterioate to
uselessness. Only mustard gas is long lived and it WAS all
accounted for, save for a trivial amount (some 500 shells).
Any weapon stocks dating back to 1991 would be useless by now and
a liability.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message |
| Do you recall the context?

It was a report from an analyst who is involved in looking for WMD.


Thank you. I'd be more trusting of a UN analyst looking for WMD, than
I would of a US analyst for obvous reasons.

The UN didn't stop saying that Saddam had WMD until Ignorance S. Blix
was unable to find anything (including an explanation for what had
happened to them) last year.

For that matter, they never said that he didn't have them, only that
they needed more time to find them.

Unlike the lost Dutchman's treasure, WMDs rapidly deterioate to
uselessness.

This will certainly come as news to all the people who are trying to
come up with safe ways to dispose of our leftover chemical weapons
stocks from decades back.

Ian,

The UN didn't stop saying that Saddam had WMD until Ignorance S. Blix
was unable to find anything (including an explanation for what had
happened to them) last year.

For that matter, they never said that he didn't have them, only that
they needed more time to find them.


Simply not true.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Email to Ian Graeme bounced (of course).

I replied in

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

where this subject is NOT off-topic.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
| "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | I can't see much of a difference for the world with Saddam missing (he
| | isn't, really, by the way). I am now absolutely certain - as most news
| | watchers - that Saddam didn't pose nearly the threat that some were
led
| | to believe. There are no WMD, period.
| |
|
| Saddam's own military commanders all believed that Saddam had WMD. They
have
| told investigators that they still believe it.
|
| I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
| weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.

Well, I heard it on NPR.

Do you recall the context? E.g. did the NPR speaking head say that or
did the NPR speaking head quote someone else as saying that, or
was someone else being interviewed who said that or did they play
statements from 'all' of Sadam Hussein's own military commanders?
Were ANY of the commanders mentioned by name?

I have speculated that the Iraqi military was so weakened by the
1991 war and ensuing sanctions that Saddam Hussein created the
impression that he was hiding WMDs as a bluff to forstall
military action against his regime from outside or within. But
I don't claim that to be anything but my own speculation.

Let's not forget that he only controlled about 2/3 of his own
country and his control over half of that was marginal.

His WMD were effective enough to stop the US for 12 years, until the UN
discovered they weren't there and that it was safe to attack.