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On Sun, 02 May 2004 19:08:39 GMT, "Morton Davis"
wrote: "Fred the Red Shirt" In News Conferences spokesmen for the DOD admitted that prisoners at Guatanomo Bay were being subjected to sleep deprivation and forced into 'uncompfortable positions' for long periods of time. In the same statements the same spokemen denied they were being tortured. Not by accepted definitions of torture. Physical torture doesn't give reliable information anyway. People will tell you anything to stop the pain. However, psychological techniques do work very well, though slower. First, cut people away from their support system and deprive them of sleep. Always keep them off balance and insecure about their status, where they are and evn about time. In the case of "Shame-based" cultures, make people do "forbidden things" to cut down their psychological defenses. Sound familiar ? -- remember, Japanese soldiers in WW2 who were captured even involuntarily tended to be very cooperative. Give captives an aggressor to identify with. Maybe a little "good cop", bad cop" thrown in. Eventually, they will be putty.... Before you throw up your hands in horror, what if you reasonably believe that you can save many lives by this process, which does no physical harm? PHP |
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Peter H Proctor wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 02 May 2004 19:08:39 GMT, "Morton Davis" wrote: "Fred the Red Shirt" In News Conferences spokesmen for the DOD admitted that prisoners at Guatanomo Bay were being subjected to sleep deprivation and forced into 'uncompfortable positions' for long periods of time. In the same statements the same spokemen denied they were being tortured. Not by accepted definitions of torture. Physical torture doesn't give reliable information anyway. People will tell you anything to stop the pain. However, psychological techniques do work very well, though slower. You make a good argument. But can you show evidence to support it? Before you throw up your hands in horror, what if you reasonably believe that you can save many lives by this process, which does no physical harm? If so, you have a criminal attitude. -- FF |
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Peter H Proctor wrote in message . ..
On 3 May 2004 15:25:45 -0700, (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote: While everybody likes to cite them, international accords about the treatment of prisoners only cover belligerents in uniform. There are two relevent 'Geneva Conventions'. for the treatment of prisoners. One is for captured beligerants, the other for captured civiilans. The conventions require that all prisoners be accorded the protections of one or the other unless a competent court or tribubal makes a determination to the contrary. With the exception of local militia forces rushing to the defense of their country, any belligerent not in uniform is a "spy" and can be legally executed in wartime. Psychological stress is sure a lot less than this.. Certain actions, such as torture and summary execution are crimes without regard to the choice of victim. No decent person denies this. Summry execution of suspected spies has been outlawed since at least the 1907 Hague Conventions, which you can find online. So much for your general knowledge. -- FF |
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Rape Rooms, Torture Rooms are under new management.
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"torresD" wrote in news:bSSlc.7143$V97.4572
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: Rape Rooms, Torture Rooms are under new management Your management, no doubt--listening to Air AmeriKKKa would fall under the torture category, certainly. -- "It's obvious to me that this country is rapidly dividing itself into two camps - the wimps and the warriors. The ones who want to argue and assess and appease, and the ones who want to carry this fight to our enemies and kill them before they kill us." --The Hon. Zell Miller |
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![]() "torresD" wrote in message ink.net... Rape Rooms, Torture Rooms are under new management. Snail **** is more intelligent than you. |
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Peter H Proctor wrote in message . ..
On 4 May 2004 12:54:45 -0700, (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote: Peter H Proctor With the exception of local militia forces rushing to the defense of their country, any belligerent not in uniform is a "spy" and can be legally executed in wartime. Psychological stress is sure a lot less than this.. Certain actions, such as torture and summary execution are crimes without regard to the choice of victim. Arguable. But what if "psychological stress" can save innocent lives ? No decent person denies this. Say (e.g) you could have prevented 9/11 by using "psychological methods" . I know what I woudl have done.... Since it's a hypothetical, more on that later if I find the time. Summary execution of suspected spies has been outlawed since at ^^^^^^^ least the 1907 Hague Conventions, which you can find online. The US and the UK were executing "spies" in WW2. Don't recall any recent cases, but as far as I know, the provision is still there. BTW, early conventions only appled to "civilized combatants", i.e, Europeans and maybe the Japanese. "Savage tribes" were free game. Evidently you are unclear on the concept of summary execution. 'Summary execution' is execution without appropriate prior legal process. Again, you can find the relevent prohibition in the 1907 Hague conventions online, why didn't you look? Execution of spies, sabotuers, POWs and civilians are all allowed under the Geneva conventions. But only after conviction by a competent court or tribunal. That last is the part you were neglected to consider. None of the detainees at Guantanamo have been tried at all, therefore there is no basis within the context of the 1949 Conventions to deny them POW status. -- FF |
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