GAO Report: GA Security Threat

On 21 Nov 2003 10:35 AM, Holger Stephan posted the following:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:06:26 +0000, Del Rawlins wrote:

On 20 Nov 2003 11:43 PM, Holger Stephan posted the following:

neither. But the German people has been exposed to the horrors of
war not that long ago. It happened right where they live and that,
together with the incomprehensible guilt on the German nation has
turned the people into pacifists. This has everything to do with the
ugly face of war and little with the relationship between Germany
and the United States and their people.

The German people exposed their neighbors to the horrors of war.
That which occurred where they live, they brought upon themselves.

Yes, and why do you point this out, Del? Did anybody question this? Do
you think being guilty makes suffering easier? Not to mention there
were a lot of people not guilty in Germany and also suffering. Finally,
I was trying to explain today's German position. WWII was bad,
regardless of guilt, and there are many who more than others learned
from that and say war should not be used where there are other means
to resolve a conflict. And since they did not see the necessity to go
into Iraq they say it shouldn't have been done.

What I meant to say, is that I don't find it particularly credible for
Germany to be critical of another nation's decision to go to war.

The whole point of this argument is that there *were* no other means
available to resolve the conflict in Iraq. Nothing short of force would
ever have brought Saddam down or motivated him to full disclosure on the
disposition of the WMD. The suggestion that the situation could have
been repaired otherwise is as ludicrous as the idea of negotiating for
peace with Hitler would have been in 1944.

As far as the continuing fighting in Iraq and elsewhere, those people
attacking our soldiers have hated our guts all along regardless of our
actions in Iraq. Far better that they are getting themselves killed at
the hands of our military rather than attacking civilians elsewhere, who
are not nearly as well equipped to deal with them.

Eventually order will be restored to Iraq and instead of being a
destabilizing force in the region, they will be if not an ally, then at
least a responsible, productive member of the international community.
What I find most annoying is that the democrats will probably be in
power once more by the time that happens, and will give themselves
credit for the successful conclusion of events brought about under the
current administration. And don't for a second think that they will
scale back this so called "patriot act" and TSA bull**** which we are
now subjected to.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:56:08 +0000, Del Rawlins wrote:

What I meant to say, is that I don't find it particularly credible for
Germany to be critical of another nation's decision to go to war.

I think it was Daniel Schorr who suggested not to overly criticize
Germany's current pacifism ...history has shown when they run into the
other direction they are hard to stop. Not a direct response to your
comment but I usually don't find much to say about moral lectures.


The whole point of this argument is that there *were* no other means
available to resolve the conflict in Iraq. Nothing short of force would
ever have brought Saddam down or motivated him to full disclosure on the
disposition of the WMD. The suggestion that the situation could have
been repaired otherwise is as ludicrous as the idea of negotiating for
peace with Hitler would have been in 1944.

This is an opinion. You can only assume what would have happened without
the war. BTW, this is called logic. Works without trying to find parallels
in history.

The other open (and never to be answered) question is whether it was
necessary to rid of Saddam in order to improve the security of the
American people (which was the only valid reason to justify the war,
before the nation and before the UN).

- Holger