New Generation Vario's

I have a 302, a CN vario, and a V9 installed here and there so can compare these. I'm also very fussy about varios, as the CN people will attest.

The 302 is a very very good vario. But it's not in production and it's not as robust as the new ones. It has to be set up right and properly compensated.

Like all these varios it does not like leaks, it does not like flow varios on the same circuit, and it wants the pressures all coming from the same place, not the probe. If you have leaks, flow varios connected together, or you're not using pitot, static, and TE from the probe all these varios will disappoint.

The CN vario is also very very good. The first generation of the filtering software was, in my opinion, a bit better than 302. The second generation (last summer) removed a lot of bugs, but was a step backward in filtering, especially in strong weather and full of water. Now that the navigation stuff is behind them, I gather CN is working again on filtering. Frequent software updates and active development is a plus.

The V9 is a great vario out of the box. The filtering is excellent. It too needs to be set up right and correctly compensated.

It has one big downside for me so far. Where the CN and 302 vario are set up that "2 knots up" means "2 knots up" in both speed command and climb mode, the V9 tones in speed command are set to correspond to horizontal speed differences not vertical ones. It uses somehting like the same tone for "10 knots fast" that it does for "2 knots up." But in a modern glider, the speed to fly is much more sensitive to the lift value. So, bottom line, the tones swing around in speed command mode much more than they do in climb mode. Where this is a problem is when you slow down and sniff around but haven't decided to climb. In speed mode, you'll hear garbage, much too optimistic in lift. So, you have to set it up to switch to climb mode at about 70 knots.

All of these varios have hardware in them that could allow for amazing things, not yet implemented in software.

John Cochrane

How do the V7 / V9 display Netto information? Can you setup a switch?

I am on my second season with a V7. Like John I experience less than 100 percent satisfaction as I slow back into the "sniffing around" speeds. Speed to fly actions and tones are excellent when running flat out. When feeling the need to stop and thermal I find myself using my secondary mechanical vario more than I previously did. As a fix I installed a switch near my trim knob and convenient to my left hand. I switch to climb mode manually when transitioning to "I need a thermal" mode of thinking. Downside is this puts LK 8000 in climb mode also as I have the PNA and V7 synced. This throws off my Task Stats in the LK8000.

All said I do love my V7.

Lane
XF

On Monday, May 26, 2014 11:01:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I am on my second season with a V7. Like John I experience less than 100 percent satisfaction as I slow back into the "sniffing around" speeds. Speed to fly actions and tones are excellent when running flat out. When feeling the need to stop and thermal I find myself using my secondary mechanical vario more than I previously did. As a fix I installed a switch near my trim knob and convenient to my left hand. I switch to climb mode manually when transitioning to "I need a thermal" mode of thinking. Downside is this puts LK 8000 in climb mode also as I have the PNA and V7 synced. This throws off my Task Stats in the LK8000.



All said I do love my V7.



Lane

XF

Lane,

I also have the V7, LK8000 combination and find it works well. Same issues with sniff mode and will probably change the flap switch to engage thermal mode at 0 rather than +1. I've got a lazy question (haven't gone through all the manuals yet). Is there a way to disengage only the McCready communication between LK and the V7 to allow keeping the LK on a final glide MC while setting the V7 to a lower cruise MC?

The V7 firmware upgrade this year also opened up more options for using the acceleration sensing functions built into the instrument. Does anyone have a clear understanding of the algorithm being used and what advantages it should offer?

Thanks,
Craig 7Q

Le mardi 27 mai 2014 14:16:14 UTC-4, Craig Funston a écrit*:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 11:01:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:

I am on my second season with a V7. Like John I experience less than 100 percent satisfaction as I slow back into the "sniffing around" speeds. Speed to fly actions and tones are excellent when running flat out. When feeling the need to stop and thermal I find myself using my secondary mechanical vario more than I previously did. As a fix I installed a switch near my trim knob and convenient to my left hand. I switch to climb mode manually when transitioning to "I need a thermal" mode of thinking. Downside is this puts LK 8000 in climb mode also as I have the PNA and V7 synced. This throws off my Task Stats in the LK8000.



Hi
I am surprised Borgelt instruments, B800, are not on this list???

G







All said I do love my V7.







Lane



XF



Lane,



I also have the V7, LK8000 combination and find it works well. Same issues with sniff mode and will probably change the flap switch to engage thermal mode at 0 rather than +1. I've got a lazy question (haven't gone through all the manuals yet). Is there a way to disengage only the McCready communication between LK and the V7 to allow keeping the LK on a final glide MC while setting the V7 to a lower cruise MC?



The V7 firmware upgrade this year also opened up more options for using the acceleration sensing functions built into the instrument. Does anyone have a clear understanding of the algorithm being used and what advantages it should offer?



Thanks,

Craig 7Q

At 18:16 27 May 2014, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 11:01:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I am on my second season with a V7. Like John I experience less than
100
=
percent satisfaction as I slow back into the "sniffing around" speeds.
Spee=
d to fly actions and tones are excellent when running flat out. When
feelin=
g the need to stop and thermal I find myself using my secondary
mechanical
=
vario more than I previously did. As a fix I installed a switch near my
tri=
m knob and convenient to my left hand. I switch to climb mode manually
when=
transitioning to "I need a thermal" mode of thinking. Downside is this
p=
uts LK 8000 in climb mode also as I have the PNA and V7 synced. This
throws=
off my Task Stats in the LK8000.=20
=20
=20
=20
All said I do love my V7.=20
=20
=20
=20
Lane
=20
XF

Lane,

I also have the V7, LK8000 combination and find it works well. Same
issues=
with sniff mode and will probably change the flap switch to engage
thermal=
mode at 0 rather than +1. I've got a lazy question (haven't gone
through
=
all the manuals yet). Is there a way to disengage only the McCready
commun=
ication between LK and the V7 to allow keeping the LK on a final glide MC
w=
hile setting the V7 to a lower cruise MC?

The V7 firmware upgrade this year also opened up more options for using
the=
acceleration sensing functions built into the instrument. Does anyone
hav=
e a clear understanding of the algorithm being used and what advantages
it
=
should offer?

Thanks,
Craig 7Q

Can you not set the vario to change to climb mode based on airspeed. I have
my lx160 set to 58kts and rarely think it is in the wrong mode.

The V7 is telling LK8000 to switch between STF and Climb. Basically the PNA is slaved to the V7. If I change McCready in one instrument the other follows suite. I don't believe you can uncouple the McCready while other values remain coupled. John Cochran wrote an excellent article on the virtues of having the Nav Device and the Vario McCreadys uncoupled.

Lane

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:41:51 AM UTC-7, wrote:
The V7 is telling LK8000 to switch between STF and Climb. Basically the PNA is slaved to the V7. If I change McCready in one instrument the other follows suite. I don't believe you can uncouple the McCready while other values remain coupled. John Cochran wrote an excellent article on the virtues of having the Nav Device and the Vario McCreadys uncoupled.



Lane

Thanks Lane, John's article on final glide and MC is excellent & it would be great to uncouple the LK final glide MC from the V7 speed to fly. I'll dig a bit deeper into the manuals and may ask Paolo if I don't find anything..

Jim, the V7 has options to change between climb and cruise using speed or a switch. I've flown with it both ways and prefer having the switch.

Cheers,
Craig

At 16:49 26 May 2014, wrote:

I have a 302, a CN vario, and a V9 installed here and there so
can compare
=
these. I'm also very fussy about varios, as the CN people will
attest.=20

The 302 is a very very good vario. But it's not in production
and it's not
=
as robust as the new ones. It has to be set up right and
properly
compensat=
ed.=20

Like all these varios it does not like leaks, it does not like
flow varios
=
on the same circuit, and it wants the pressures all coming
from the same
pl=
ace, not the probe. If you have leaks, flow varios connected
together, or
y=
ou're not using pitot, static, and TE from the probe all these
varios will
=
disappoint.=20

The CN vario is also very very good. The first generation of
the filtering
=
software was, in my opinion, a bit better than 302. The
second generation
(=
last summer) removed a lot of bugs, but was a step backward
in filtering,
e=
specially in strong weather and full of water. Now that the
navigation
stuf=
f is behind them, I gather CN is working again on filtering.
Frequent
softw=
are updates and active development is a plus.=20

The V9 is a great vario out of the box. The filtering is
excellent. It too
=
needs to be set up right and correctly compensated.=20

It has one big downside for me so far. Where the CN and 302
vario are set
u=
p that "2 knots up" means "2 knots up" in both speed
command and climb
mode=
, the V9 tones in speed command are set to correspond to
horizontal speed
d=
ifferences not vertical ones. It uses somehting like the same
tone for "10
=
knots fast" that it does for "2 knots up." But in a modern
glider, the
spee=
d to fly is much more sensitive to the lift value. So, bottom
line, the
ton=
es swing around in speed command mode much more than
they do in climb
mode.=
Where this is a problem is when you slow down and sniff
around but
haven't=
decided to climb. In speed mode, you'll hear garbage, much
too optimistic
=
in lift. So, you have to set it up to switch to climb mode at
about 70
knot=
s. =20

All of these varios have hardware in them that could allow for
amazing
thin=
gs, not yet implemented in software.=20

John Cochrane

John,

I don't have a problem with the V9 audio but had to think about
the options as there are 7 climb and 5 cruise audio tone options
to choose between so it should be possible to choose a
combination that gives good information and differentiation
between climb and cruise. I have the V9 needle set for Relative
in cruise mode and so I have selected the "SC Mixed" cruise
audio mode. To quote the manual, "for positive relative values
the sound represents relative; for negative relative values the
sound represents SC". This makes reasonable sense to me
intuitively in flight although I prefer the Borgelt idea of
changing to climb tone when the relative is higher than the MC
setting


John Galloway

My favorite vario is the one that is pointed UP