Open Discussion; Creating XC pilots

Thanks, Waremark, that's interesting data. I'd love to see others post in this thread what their club XC participation rates are (with an XC pilot being defined as someone who posted a flight trace for a sanctioned contest, a fun meet, the OLC or a badge distance leg). Up until now my figures of merit were that only 10% of club members fly XC, and only 3% fly in contests.

Really understanding why people do not start flying XC is difficult. Some of it is personality (Type A's and self-starters probably predominate the XC ranks), but self-doubt must also factor in (people are unsure of their ability to find and use thermals and to properly land out, they're fearful of wrecking their glider, or they feel they'll be mocked). Another big factor has to be available time. Access to equipment can be an issue (suitable glider, proper trailer, car with a hitch), which is probably why most XC pilots own their own plane. Negative comments from instructors can also figure in, as does the lack of knowledge about the incredible satisfaction, sense of achievement and pilot skill growth that comes from flying XC. Naturally, all of these reasons can be addressed and minds changed, but we need to know what the issues are!

In past years my club made the process of flying XC too complicated. It's much better now, only a PPG and a Bronze badge are required. Still, very few people try it, even with our XC pilots talking it up, giving informal seminars, offering XC flights in the Duo, making written material available, etc. Any insights about what has worked elsewhere will be gratefully accepted!

-John, Q3

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 7:24:37 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
I think XC is deeply embedded in the club culture at London Gliding Club (UK) with most of the active instructors also being active XC pilots, and new pilots positively encouraged to move on towards XC via Silver after solo and bronze. I just checked and found that 57 members have posted XC flights on the BGA ladder so far this year (a UK specific online ladder used by most club members in preference to OLC). Undoubtedly there are a few more members than this who fly XC, and I would guess that about 25% of our 270 club members do so.

We run one or two 9 day XC courses a year, comprising lectures, 2 seat opportunities, lead and follow and other similar activities. Our CFI does daily weather briefs, and XC task setting and weather briefing on suitable XC days. The club has a Duo - sadly under-utilised much of the time, perhaps mainly because most of the instructors with suitable experience and ability to train XC prefer to fly their own gliders. However, there are several privately owned high performance 2 seaters in which the owners regularly offer XC flights to the less experienced, and an instructor is rostered to instruct XC in the Duo on one day a week. During our local annual competition instructors take less experienced members XC in the Duo and a K21.

All this makes one wonder why 75% of members don't fly XC. One significant factor is the age profile of the membership. Some older members have given up XC, and many of those who have started at retirement age never take it up. But this is of course in addition to the factors already talked about in this thread - fear of landing out, lack of retrieve crews etc. (During our course weeks, pilots do not have to make individual retrieve arrangements, and fellow club members are always willing to come and get a pilot in a field).

Instructors can have a lot to do with a new pilot developing a fear of XC in that even if they aren't overtly hostile to XC, they convey their own fears of XC in many subtle ways such as tone of voice, body language, or just the way a training syllabus is presented. Primacy embeds this fear in students in a way that is very difficult to overcome later. The same is true of group dynamics. If the student is surrounded with club members who fear XC, (Perhaps because they were trained by an XC-hostile instructor.) it's likely they will pick up on this and become fearful themselves. Taken together, you have a self-perpetuating fear of XC.

The solution is to insist on instructors who are enthusiastic about XC and to elevate the status and influence of successful XC pilots so they tend to dominate group dynamics.

FAI badges can facilitate this. I'd like to see a club environment where badges are worn proudly - especially by instructors.

I'm happy to report that the last person I mentored in the Duo was 15 miles out from the airport yesterday in the 1-26. Not technically XC since he remained above glide, but the tutoring and confidence building in finding and working lift and strategies for getting up paid off. He spent 3.8 hours in the 1-26 I think and I've signed him off to step up into the Russia for a bit longer legs.

Really nice to see someone progressing safely and smartly.

Took another person up yesterday for 3+ hours of XC and their longest flight. This was a CFIG that doesn't get to go XC much from his home glider port so it was a good learning experience for him. Even included a near land out in a remote valley. Thankfully avoided adding that to my list of mentoring accomplishments and instead just gave the Low Save experience.

Of note, a great source of good glider pilots might be helicopter pilots. Every helicopter pilot I've flown with has had excellent stick and rudder skills and a very light touch.





On Monday, July 21, 2014 9:27:46 AM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
Instructors can have a lot to do with a new pilot developing a fear of XC in that even if they aren't overtly hostile to XC, they convey their own fears of XC in many subtle ways such as tone of voice, body language, or just the way a training syllabus is presented. Primacy embeds this fear in students in a way that is very difficult to overcome later. The same is true of group dynamics. If the student is surrounded with club members who fear XC, (Perhaps because they were trained by an XC-hostile instructor.) it's likely they will pick up on this and become fearful themselves. Taken together, you have a self-perpetuating fear of XC.



The solution is to insist on instructors who are enthusiastic about XC and to elevate the status and influence of successful XC pilots so they tend to dominate group dynamics.



FAI badges can facilitate this. I'd like to see a club environment where badges are worn proudly - especially by instructors.

On Monday, July 21, 2014 9:27:46 AM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
Instructors can have a lot to do with a new pilot developing a fear of XC in that even if they aren't overtly hostile to XC, they convey their own fears of XC in many subtle ways such as tone of voice, body language, or just the way a training syllabus is presented. Primacy embeds this fear in students

We've seen this with some of our local instructors.

Another issue that I think is subtly at-play: in the Club environment where instruction is already slow, students may naturally make the assumption that XC training - being an "advanced" topic - is going to be even slower than primary training was.

Noel, that's an interesting observation, and one I've never heard before. My club does lose people to the long training process, and that might indeed bias others to not try XC. We'll have to start pointing out that if they've earned a ticket they're 90% of the way towards becoming XC pilots. Thanks!

-John, Q3

On Monday, July 21, 2014 9:49:49 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
Another issue that I think is subtly at-play: in the Club environment where instruction is already slow, students may naturally make the assumption that XC training - being an "advanced" topic - is going to be even slower than primary training was.

In the UK:
I would say for me lack of XC is due to:

Lack of any possibility for a retrieve crew and no, the fact that I have
recovered others from a field has no relevance whatsoever when trying to
find anyone to retrieve me....It's understandable - people really do have
other things to do in the evening rather than be called out to rescue
someone from a field....particularly if going to be a mega-difficult one
with added aggro' and difficult access, not to mention sitting in the
traffic jams just to get there.

Lack of suitable fields to land in - many either too small or with standing
crop at certain times of the year. Makes you very nervous when looking
down. Some apparently OK fields can be very high risk with the possibility
of overhead wires on the approach or even worse almost invisible barbed
wire fences in the middle of the field.

Abuse and aggro' when landing in a field. The worst was one where the farm
manager was livid and almost foaming at the mouth. Then guess what -
another glider landed in the field seeing that mine had landed
safely...sort of.
The police ended up being called. I could really do without this sort of
thing while ?enjoying? a hobby.

Complex airspace as to where you can and can't go and at what altitude.
Pages of notams to be poured over for all the special last minute
modifications. (The good weather will always be inside restricted
airspace!)

Then there is the fact I always get lost, I'm ever scanning the skies for
the crazed RAF fast jet about to cut me in two....and who cannot possibly
see me

It is simply not worth the aggro.

One word: ADVENTURE!

Dan Marotta

On 7/24/2014 3:03 PM, John Howell wrote:
In the UK:
I would say for me lack of XC is due to:

Lack of any possibility for a retrieve crew and no, the fact that I have
recovered others from a field has no relevance whatsoever when trying to
find anyone to retrieve me....It's understandable - people really do have
other things to do in the evening rather than be called out to rescue
someone from a field....particularly if going to be a mega-difficult one
with added aggro' and difficult access, not to mention sitting in the
traffic jams just to get there.

Lack of suitable fields to land in - many either too small or with standing
crop at certain times of the year. Makes you very nervous when looking
down. Some apparently OK fields can be very high risk with the possibility
of overhead wires on the approach or even worse almost invisible barbed
wire fences in the middle of the field.

Abuse and aggro' when landing in a field. The worst was one where the farm
manager was livid and almost foaming at the mouth. Then guess what -
another glider landed in the field seeing that mine had landed
safely...sort of.
The police ended up being called. I could really do without this sort of
thing while ?enjoying? a hobby.

Complex airspace as to where you can and can't go and at what altitude.
Pages of notams to be poured over for all the special last minute
modifications. (The good weather will always be inside restricted
airspace!)

Then there is the fact I always get lost, I'm ever scanning the skies for
the crazed RAF fast jet about to cut me in two....and who cannot possibly
see me

It is simply not worth the aggro.

Try tiddly winks

Nearly all the problems you mention are mitigated by practice and planning.
Top xc pilots do 000's of k without landing in farmer's fields outside of
competition every year.

Even in comps they tend to land on airfields, especially in the UK where
there are plenty. Many now have engines and don't land out at all!

Practice and planning, or tiddly winks.



At 21:03 24 July 2014, John Howell wrote:

In the UK:
I would say for me lack of XC is due to:

Lack of any possibility for a retrieve crew and no, the fact that I have
recovered others from a field has no relevance whatsoever when trying to
find anyone to retrieve me....It's understandable - people really do have
other things to do in the evening rather than be called out to rescue
someone from a field....particularly if going to be a mega-difficult one
with added aggro' and difficult access, not to mention sitting in the
traffic jams just to get there.

Lack of suitable fields to land in - many either too small or with
standing
crop at certain times of the year. Makes you very nervous when looking
down. Some apparently OK fields can be very high risk with the
possibility
of overhead wires on the approach or even worse almost invisible barbed
wire fences in the middle of the field.

Abuse and aggro' when landing in a field. The worst was one where the
farm
manager was livid and almost foaming at the mouth. Then guess what -
another glider landed in the field seeing that mine had landed
safely...sort of.
The police ended up being called. I could really do without this sort of
thing while ?enjoying? a hobby.

Complex airspace as to where you can and can't go and at what altitude.
Pages of notams to be poured over for all the special last minute
modifications. (The good weather will always be inside restricted
airspace!)

Then there is the fact I always get lost, I'm ever scanning the skies for
the crazed RAF fast jet about to cut me in two....and who cannot possibly
see me

It is simply not worth the aggro.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 2:36:39 AM UTC-4, Jim White wrote:
Try tiddly winks

Or perhaps some dual time in a high performance twin with a good XC pilot on (here's the key) a good day. 90% of keeping "recreational XC" recreational is keeping your plans and expectations in line with what mother nature gives you to work with.


Evan Ludeman

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:03:21 +0000, John Howell wrote:

In the UK:
Me also.

I would say for me lack of XC is due to:

Lack of any possibility for a retrieve crew and no, the fact that I have
recovered others from a field has no relevance whatsoever when trying to
find anyone to retrieve me....

We tend to use mutual retrieval agreements.

Lack of suitable fields to land in - many either too small or with
standing crop at certain times of the year.

Fair comment.

Abuse and aggro' when landing in a field.

I've been in a few and flown competition free flight models for longer
than I've been gliding. Never had that reaction, in either case.

Complex airspace as to where you can and can't go and at what altitude.
Pages of notams to be poured over for all the special last minute
modifications.

Use SPINE - its much quicker than scanning through printed NOTAM lists.
Better yet, if the NOTAM is plottable SPINE can save it in a file your nav
system can display.

Then there is the fact I always get lost,

Both LK8000 and XCSoar are open source, hence free, navigation programs
that run on reasonably priced/inexpensive satnav kit and can display both
NOTAMs saved by SPINE and landout field details. Both are also useful for
local soaring: just set up a task with your home field as the only
turnpoint and, as well as keeping book on whether have the height to get
home, they'll show any restricted airspace/NOTAMs in the area.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |