Glider pilot rolls inverted and exits at 1400 feet AGL

Kirk has a lot of good ideas! I, too, will keep the "push the stick forward to help get out" maneuver in mind. If that doesn't work, though, seven years ago on RAS Kirk suggested a last resort maneuver:

"You can't get out of the cockpit. Last resort, (canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you can (pull yourself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider."

I sincerely hope that I never have to use either maneuver!

-John, Q3

On Monday, July 28, 2014 2:22:50 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, July 28, 2014 10:22:42 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Do aerobatic-versed pilots plan this inverted exit strategy in advance? It seems rather fast and efficient.

No. If you have enough control to roll inverted, you can probably land the glider.

After a midair, who knows what the plane will do.

And taking the time to roll upside down (real slooowww in a glider) is a poor choice most of the time, when all you have to do is undo your straps and slam the stick forward - if you get more than 1 negative G that's the same as falling out from an upside down cockpit.

But practically, after a midair your glider will probably either be spinning (loss of most a a wing?) or diving steeply (loss of tail controls) so the trick is to get out any way you can RIGHT NOW and not go for style points.

The "roll upside down and drop out" comes from situations in planes where you still had control but had to get out - like a fire, or out of fuel over unlandable terrain. Common advice in WW2 fighter manuals.

Of course, if you are upside down as a result of a midair, I sure wouldn't try to roll rightside up before getting out!

Kirk
66

That maneuver may well have your parachute entangled in the tail of the
aircraft. Everything sounded great until the part about pulling the rip
cord. Better to get in the pulled up position and then roll right or
left out of the aircraft.

Dan Marotta

On 7/29/2014 7:48 AM, John Carlyle wrote:
Kirk has a lot of good ideas! I, too, will keep the "push the stick forward to help get out" maneuver in mind. If that doesn't work, though, seven years ago on RAS Kirk suggested a last resort maneuver:

"You can't get out of the cockpit. Last resort, (canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you can (pull yourself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider."

I sincerely hope that I never have to use either maneuver!

-John, Q3

On Monday, July 28, 2014 2:22:50 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, July 28, 2014 10:22:42 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Do aerobatic-versed pilots plan this inverted exit strategy in advance? It seems rather fast and efficient.
No. If you have enough control to roll inverted, you can probably land the glider.

After a midair, who knows what the plane will do.

And taking the time to roll upside down (real slooowww in a glider) is a poor choice most of the time, when all you have to do is undo your straps and slam the stick forward - if you get more than 1 negative G that's the same as falling out from an upside down cockpit.

But practically, after a midair your glider will probably either be spinning (loss of most a a wing?) or diving steeply (loss of tail controls) so the trick is to get out any way you can RIGHT NOW and not go for style points.

The "roll upside down and drop out" comes from situations in planes where you still had control but had to get out - like a fire, or out of fuel over unlandable terrain. Common advice in WW2 fighter manuals.

Of course, if you are upside down as a result of a midair, I sure wouldn't try to roll rightside up before getting out!

Kirk
66

Dan, the key words were "last resort", ie, desperation time. Also, on the ground I am unable to roll out of the cockpit with a chute on my back from the normal seating position, much less while pulling myself as far forward as I can get. I think I can forget about being able to roll out while airborne under G loads, but maybe adrenaline would work wonders. I hope I never find out...

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:48:20 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
That maneuver may well have your parachute entangled in the tail of the
aircraft. Everything sounded great until the part about pulling the rip
cord. Better to get in the pulled up position and then roll right or
left out of the aircraft.

Dan Marotta

On 7/29/2014 7:48 AM, John Carlyle wrote:
Kirk has a lot of good ideas! I, too, will keep the "push the stick forward to help get out" maneuver in mind. If that doesn't work, though, seven years ago on RAS Kirk suggested a last resort maneuver:

"You can't get out of the cockpit. Last resort, (canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you can (pull yourself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider."

I sincerely hope that I never have to use either maneuver!

-John, Q3

This is all "Last Resort" stuff!

I can see a situation where you get sucked up into a Cu-Nim without gyros and lose control - as you accelerate through Vne and flutter starts, the negative g push technique will probably work pretty well - since you will be in a hi-G spiral with little chance to just roll out of the cockpit!

With a midair, who knows? If you are lucky your glider spits you out and all you have to do is pull the ripcord... but if your tail is chopped off or you lose a wing, all bets are off.

And the "lean forward and pull the ripcord" is an absolute last chance "die with your boots on" move. Good chance you will be severely banged up in the process, and it may not work if you hangup on the tail, but it would beat the option of riding the glider in, I would think...

Fun to think about, but I would rather not put it to the test. That's one of the reasons I have a PowerFlarm (and Dan has a transponder).

Kirk

I guess I wasn't clear in my meaning.

I should have said that, after pulling yourself up by the instrument
panel (I assume your butt is out of the seat), rather than opening your
chute on the center line of the aircraft, it would be preferable to lean
yourself to one side and, hopefully, you'd go under the wing. Even if
you hit the wing or tail, your speed relative to the glider would be
very low and shouldn't cause much more than a bruise. On the other
hand, if you deploy your chute while standing hunched over in the
cockpit, your chances of a miserable ride to the ground while attached
to the tail of the aircraft are significantly increased.

Your life is in your hands at this point and it would do you well
(that's everyone) to know what to do and realize that things most likely
won't happen as you plan. I won't need the time for adrenaline to build
up since I've taken the initiative to get jump training.

Dan Marotta

On 7/29/2014 10:57 AM, John Carlyle wrote:
Dan, the key words were "last resort", ie, desperation time. Also, on the ground I am unable to roll out of the cockpit with a chute on my back from the normal seating position, much less while pulling myself as far forward as I can get. I think I can forget about being able to roll out while airborne under G loads, but maybe adrenaline would work wonders. I hope I never find out...

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:48:20 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
That maneuver may well have your parachute entangled in the tail of the
aircraft. Everything sounded great until the part about pulling the rip
cord. Better to get in the pulled up position and then roll right or
left out of the aircraft.

Dan Marotta

On 7/29/2014 7:48 AM, John Carlyle wrote:
Kirk has a lot of good ideas! I, too, will keep the "push the stick forward to help get out" maneuver in mind. If that doesn't work, though, seven years ago on RAS Kirk suggested a last resort maneuver:

"You can't get out of the cockpit. Last resort, (canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you can (pull yourself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider."

I sincerely hope that I never have to use either maneuver!

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 3:47:33 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I guess I wasn't clear in my meaning.



I should have said that, after pulling yourself up by the instrument

panel (I assume your butt is out of the seat), rather than opening your

chute on the center line of the aircraft, it would be preferable to lean

yourself to one side and, hopefully, you'd go under the wing. Even if

you hit the wing or tail, your speed relative to the glider would be

very low and shouldn't cause much more than a bruise. On the other

hand, if you deploy your chute while standing hunched over in the

cockpit, your chances of a miserable ride to the ground while attached

to the tail of the aircraft are significantly increased.



Your life is in your hands at this point and it would do you well

(that's everyone) to know what to do and realize that things most likely

won't happen as you plan. I won't need the time for adrenaline to build

up since I've taken the initiative to get jump training.



Dan Marotta



On 7/29/2014 10:57 AM, John Carlyle wrote:

Dan, the key words were "last resort", ie, desperation time. Also, on the ground I am unable to roll out of the cockpit with a chute on my back from the normal seating position, much less while pulling myself as far forward as I can get. I think I can forget about being able to roll out while airborne under G loads, but maybe adrenaline would work wonders. I hope I never find out...



-John, Q3



On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:48:20 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:

That maneuver may well have your parachute entangled in the tail of the

aircraft. Everything sounded great until the part about pulling the rip

cord. Better to get in the pulled up position and then roll right or

left out of the aircraft.



Dan Marotta



On 7/29/2014 7:48 AM, John Carlyle wrote:

Kirk has a lot of good ideas! I, too, will keep the "push the stick forward to help get out" maneuver in mind. If that doesn't work, though, seven years ago on RAS Kirk suggested a last resort maneuver:



"You can't get out of the cockpit. Last resort, (canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you can (pull yourself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider."



I sincerely hope that I never have to use either maneuver!



-John, Q3

It is really sad that most people do not receive an adequate training how to leave a glider. When I started flying at the age of 16 not only I went through hours of ground training that included leaving a glider being in all possible positions but I also I had to make a real jump. I consider myself very fortunate I received this training at the beginning of my flying experience.

On another note I was also fortunate to receive aerobatic training in a glider which I consider another desired training.

I would suggest aerobatic training to every glider pilot as well as good emergency training.

I bet someone could make good money running a training class like that in the USA.

I hope no one reading this post will ever need this skill, but having the skill greatly increases your chances of survival.

In the past I read accident reports where pilots did not know if they were in a spiral or spin. That is a result of very poor training as well.