US Tasking? Are way too many TATs/MATs are being called vs. NOTENOUGH ASSIGNED TASKS (3% in 2013)

On Tuesday, 29 July 2014 11:04:43 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
All semantics aside, we had only 7 total (5 in nationals) pure AT tasks in 2013.



Are you guys "kinda" thinking this is OK? 3%?



Are we resigned to only be tested in tasks that involve weather guessing "skills", our watches and our flight computers these days? Sorry, I know, a bit of a cheap shot there. But 30 mile turn area's and 1 turn MATs are pretty "loose" tests of flying skill at best.



In the immortal words of the band "Twisted Sister" "I wanna race!" ;-)



I will beg my CD for sure (sorry in advance guys and girls). But overall, I am shocked that we are not collectively looking at this 3% statistic and worrying. Wouldn't guidance that produces a number closer to 20% ATs (35% in nationals) be more healthy for us? Especially at Nationals?



I am shocked that 3% ATs (even if you prefer TATs) appears OK to many. Its basically all we do anymore. That is a bummer to me.



Sean

I would like to echo what SF stated; you should talk with and consult the task adviser's and let them know what you want. The CD works with them.

Idle threats of harassment will get you no where in my book. Please remember that the folks enabling contests are volunteers and are doing the task so that you can have fun, soar and participate in some friendly competition.

Maybe you should just CD your own contests, call all AT's and let us know how it goes.

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.

1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).

2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.

Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.

It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.

However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.

AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

Yes, this is such a waste of time and money and one reason that some people avoid flying contests.
"My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good."

Evan,

Agreed and good points!

I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.

Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.

OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!

Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.

50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.

Sean

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:39:19 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Evan,



Agreed and good points!



I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.



Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.



OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!



Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.



50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.



Sean



On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.







1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).







2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.







Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.







It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.







However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.







AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.







Evan Ludeman / T8

Grubs again Grumble Grumble! 3 more TATs called at the Worlds in Lezno that is 12 of 12 100%. They do call them AATs.

Richard

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:41:39 AM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
Grubs again Grumble Grumble! 3 more TATs called at the Worlds in Lezno that is 12 of 12 100%. They do call them AATs. Richard

Pretty big risk of storms, too. 10 KM finish cylinder, 400 meter min finish height. Sounds like they are dealing with rather uncertain weather, and handling it the way we do here with shorter tasks and enough turn areas to provide the flexibility to not have anyone max out on distance, but also not so long as to start landing everyone out.

I find it interesting that their final "steering" turn has a much smaller radius than their finish cylinder today. Funnel in, then spread out.

Task call today from USA Region 9 (Nephi, UT)...

Wait for it.....................

3, 30 mile radius turn cylinders (THATS RIGHT, 3 THIRTY MILE RADIUS).

Photo of task sheet (sent by my spy) he https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx7K...p=docslist_api

The AM report for the day actually say's the words "LETS RACE!" ROTFL. --http://www.ssa.org/Contests?cid=2268... gion+9+North

Ready, set, go............fly anywhere you want like OLC and have fun! But it's no race folks. Not even remotely close to a race. That's for sure.

Weather considerations for the task selection you may ask? Read it for yourself...

"Just finished the pilot meeting, spirits are high and optimism is high for a great day of racing.
One task for all classes; 02 Start, 78 Wayne Wonder, 43 Milford and 22 Delta Muni all turnpoints have 30 mile radi.
Nominal 280, maximum 402.6 and minium 182.
Duration 3:30
Task B is same as A but 3:00 duration.
Weather is forecated to be 4-6F warmer, trigger temperature passed by launch, TOL 14-15K+, lift 5 knots average+, cumulus clouds should be present and winds at TOL 15-18 MPH.
Tasks on SSA tracker site, happy viewing
Let's race" (--- yes they really said that!)

I rest my case.

:-)

Sean

As much as I hate "races" with 30 mile cylinders, lots of pilots seem to like flying the OLC. If this is what it takes to get them to fly in sanctioned contests, so be it. The rules allow assigned tasks, short MAT, long MAT, turn areas with lots of small turns, or turn areas with huge radii. If the pilots at the contest are happy, who are we to complain, from our armchairs a thousand miles away. If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.
John Cochrane

On Wednesday, 6 August 2014 13:47:40 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Task call today from USA Region 9 (Nephi, UT)...



Wait for it.....................



3, 30 mile radius turn cylinders (THATS RIGHT, 3 THIRTY MILE RADIUS).



Photo of task sheet (sent by my spy) he https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx7K...p=docslist_api



The AM report for the day actually say's the words "LETS RACE!" ROTFL. --http://www.ssa.org/Contests?cid=2268... gion+9+North



Ready, set, go............fly anywhere you want like OLC and have fun! But it's no race folks. Not even remotely close to a race. That's for sure..



Weather considerations for the task selection you may ask? Read it for yourself...



"Just finished the pilot meeting, spirits are high and optimism is high for a great day of racing.

One task for all classes; 02 Start, 78 Wayne Wonder, 43 Milford and 22 Delta Muni all turnpoints have 30 mile radi.

Nominal 280, maximum 402.6 and minium 182.

Duration 3:30

Task B is same as A but 3:00 duration.

Weather is forecated to be 4-6F warmer, trigger temperature passed by launch, TOL 14-15K+, lift 5 knots average+, cumulus clouds should be present and winds at TOL 15-18 MPH.

Tasks on SSA tracker site, happy viewing

Let's race" (--- yes they really said that!)



I rest my case.



:-)



Sean

I do not have time to respond with the level of detail anyone here would require and I am trying not to respond emotionally with a '**** off you have no clue what you are talking about since you are not here understanding all the parameters we are dealing with'

I have one request for Sean; please take down the link you posted for the task sheet. It has peoples personal telephone numbers, including mine, on it that are volunteering so that 37-38 pilots and their crew can have fun, race gliders and experience central UT. Your disregard for privacy and complete lack of understanding on our situation is appalling and disgusting.

Sean,

Sorry you are way off base on today's call. I'm not on the task committee but I thought it was a good call. I like AST's but we have been on the edge of storms for three days. Hard to predict where it will OD right now.

We had a forty mile long cell of rain down the middle of the task area today. It gave pilots the option of how to fly around it today.

Also the first turn area was over very intimidating terrain. The more advance pilots could fly over the high plateau but allowed the newer pilots with less mountain experience to fly where they were more comfortable. I ran a ledge next to a thunderstorm for fifty miles over a high plateau, I don't expect a newer pilot to do the same.

Today's task was really a triangle that all the pilots followed similar paths so much less variation than you would think for three turns with big rings.

As you remember from your last contest at Parowan this can be intimidating weather and country for new pilots. If I remember correctly you did not fly a few days because it was too advanced for your skill level at the time.

The task committee has done a nice job for the last three days with very dynamic weather. We have thunderstorms rolling through right now that could have easily been right through the course area today.

TT