US Tasking? Are way too many TATs/MATs are being called vs. NOTENOUGH ASSIGNED TASKS (3% in 2013)

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.

1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).

2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.

Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.

It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.

However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.

AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

Yes, this is such a waste of time and money and one reason that some people avoid flying contests.
"My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good."

Evan,

Agreed and good points!

I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.

Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.

OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!

Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.

50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.

Sean

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:39:19 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Evan,



Agreed and good points!



I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.



Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.



OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!



Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.



50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.



Sean



On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.







1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).







2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.







Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.







It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.







However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.







AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.







Evan Ludeman / T8

Grubs again Grumble Grumble! 3 more TATs called at the Worlds in Lezno that is 12 of 12 100%. They do call them AATs.

Richard

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:41:39 AM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
Grubs again Grumble Grumble! 3 more TATs called at the Worlds in Lezno that is 12 of 12 100%. They do call them AATs. Richard

Pretty big risk of storms, too. 10 KM finish cylinder, 400 meter min finish height. Sounds like they are dealing with rather uncertain weather, and handling it the way we do here with shorter tasks and enough turn areas to provide the flexibility to not have anyone max out on distance, but also not so long as to start landing everyone out.

I find it interesting that their final "steering" turn has a much smaller radius than their finish cylinder today. Funnel in, then spread out.

Task call today from USA Region 9 (Nephi, UT)...

Wait for it.....................

3, 30 mile radius turn cylinders (THATS RIGHT, 3 THIRTY MILE RADIUS).

Photo of task sheet (sent by my spy) he https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx7K...p=docslist_api

The AM report for the day actually say's the words "LETS RACE!" ROTFL. --http://www.ssa.org/Contests?cid=2268... gion+9+North

Ready, set, go............fly anywhere you want like OLC and have fun! But it's no race folks. Not even remotely close to a race. That's for sure.

Weather considerations for the task selection you may ask? Read it for yourself...

"Just finished the pilot meeting, spirits are high and optimism is high for a great day of racing.
One task for all classes; 02 Start, 78 Wayne Wonder, 43 Milford and 22 Delta Muni all turnpoints have 30 mile radi.
Nominal 280, maximum 402.6 and minium 182.
Duration 3:30
Task B is same as A but 3:00 duration.
Weather is forecated to be 4-6F warmer, trigger temperature passed by launch, TOL 14-15K+, lift 5 knots average+, cumulus clouds should be present and winds at TOL 15-18 MPH.
Tasks on SSA tracker site, happy viewing
Let's race" (--- yes they really said that!)

I rest my case.

:-)

Sean

As much as I hate "races" with 30 mile cylinders, lots of pilots seem to like flying the OLC. If this is what it takes to get them to fly in sanctioned contests, so be it. The rules allow assigned tasks, short MAT, long MAT, turn areas with lots of small turns, or turn areas with huge radii. If the pilots at the contest are happy, who are we to complain, from our armchairs a thousand miles away. If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.
John Cochrane

it's a challenge accomodating a dry LS-3 or LS-4 as well as a watered JS-1C on the same task without using big circles.

and "what John said"

Without commenting on a particular task, I humbly suggest the real problem is contest attendance - or rather the lack of it.

Asking pilots at_a_contest about task preferences is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. For meaningful data - and to grow contest flying - one should be asking those NOT attending contests what sort of tasks THEY prefer.

I suspect the answers to this hypothetical survey would range from "Those we understand." to "You won't like the answer."

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:03:28 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Snip----
If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.

John Cochrane



On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:03:28 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
As much as I hate "races" with 30 mile cylinders, lots of pilots seem to like flying the OLC. If this is what it takes to get them to fly in sanctioned contests, so be it. The rules allow assigned tasks, short MAT, long MAT, turn areas with lots of small turns, or turn areas with huge radii. If the pilots at the contest are happy, who are we to complain, from our armchairs a thousand miles away. If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.

John Cochrane

On Wednesday, 6 August 2014 13:47:40 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Task call today from USA Region 9 (Nephi, UT)...



Wait for it.....................



3, 30 mile radius turn cylinders (THATS RIGHT, 3 THIRTY MILE RADIUS).



Photo of task sheet (sent by my spy) he https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx7K...p=docslist_api



The AM report for the day actually say's the words "LETS RACE!" ROTFL. --http://www.ssa.org/Contests?cid=2268... gion+9+North



Ready, set, go............fly anywhere you want like OLC and have fun! But it's no race folks. Not even remotely close to a race. That's for sure..



Weather considerations for the task selection you may ask? Read it for yourself...



"Just finished the pilot meeting, spirits are high and optimism is high for a great day of racing.

One task for all classes; 02 Start, 78 Wayne Wonder, 43 Milford and 22 Delta Muni all turnpoints have 30 mile radi.

Nominal 280, maximum 402.6 and minium 182.

Duration 3:30

Task B is same as A but 3:00 duration.

Weather is forecated to be 4-6F warmer, trigger temperature passed by launch, TOL 14-15K+, lift 5 knots average+, cumulus clouds should be present and winds at TOL 15-18 MPH.

Tasks on SSA tracker site, happy viewing

Let's race" (--- yes they really said that!)



I rest my case.



:-)



Sean

I do not have time to respond with the level of detail anyone here would require and I am trying not to respond emotionally with a '**** off you have no clue what you are talking about since you are not here understanding all the parameters we are dealing with'

I have one request for Sean; please take down the link you posted for the task sheet. It has peoples personal telephone numbers, including mine, on it that are volunteering so that 37-38 pilots and their crew can have fun, race gliders and experience central UT. Your disregard for privacy and complete lack of understanding on our situation is appalling and disgusting.