UAV video platform - soaring video potential?

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider.

That's a valid concern, but to put the risk in perspective, they weigh 3-5 pounds. Given their long-armed-structure, shape and size, a mid-air would probably be a glancing blow. A serious accident is certainly possible.

I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

Interesting. You have expressed on this board that you're worried about out landings, yet you're blase about a mid-air with a 3-5 pound UAV. I think your priorities are all wrong...

-John, Q3

Not being antagonistic.
A 3-5 pound rock or quad copter hitting my glider at 55knts or better (glider speed) can do a lot of damage and even come through the plexiglas and knock out the pilot. A "glancing blow" on a wing would still make a pretty big hole in the leading edge or damage a horizontal and jam the elevator.

I can see another "full scale" glider, seeing a quad copter at a range that I can expect to maneuver and avoid, not so much.

Flying these birds or any RC aircraft at a public airport without airport management approval and a safety observer is against accepted AMA rules.
Flying these birds with FPV without a safety observer and out of "line of sight" of the safety observer is against AMA rules.
In the US, the FAA expects all RC operators to abide by AMA guidelines and accepted practices.

There have already been "accidents" of hobbiest pilots of quad copters losing control and causing personal injury at public events.
This already has the the FAA's attention.

BillT

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:



The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider.



That's a valid concern, but to put the risk in perspective, they weigh 3-5 pounds. Given their long-armed-structure, shape and size, a mid-air would probably be a glancing blow. A serious accident is certainly possible.



I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

Dear SOF, being clueless and naive should not be an excuse for spouting nonsense. Who is going to pay for the hole in your wing or the damaged canopy or worse after that "glancing blow" you envision? Being hit on your turn to final can well bring down the glider, especially when considering a solo student pilot. This subject is not trivial and we should be unflinchingly opposed to mixing drones with piloted aircraft, including the scenarios Sean is proposing with his "non-profit". He knows that flying drones commercially is verboten right now. Wonder who is going to insure his activities?

Herb,

Some of your statements are grossly inaccurate. As for your opinions, you are certainly entitled to having them.

I would walk you thru how it all works, but I am certain that you have already come to a conclusion based on a preconceived and highly inaccurate idea of what I am proposing.

And for the record I already have 4 very interested parties. ;-).

Best,

Sean

I'm sure that this could be done safely enough, especially if the UAV is equipped with Flarm or a transponder and it avoids flying in the pattern. However, UAVs do malfunction at a higher rate than piloted aircraft and loss of control occurs quite often, even with commercial and military operators. Some care will be needed!

The main problem is the FAA's refusal to permit any commercial use, which is certainly likely to restrict any operations such as those proposed. (Not that this will prevent some guys doing it anyway).

Mike

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 9:45:36 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
Herb,



Some of your statements are grossly inaccurate. As for your opinions, you are certainly entitled to having them.



I would walk you thru how it all works, but I am certain that you have already come to a conclusion based on a preconceived and highly inaccurate idea of what I am proposing.



And for the record I already have 4 very interested parties. ;-).



Best,



Sean

Sean,
Enlighten me as to what you are proposing. I understand you want to make videos from a flying platform that is in a tight formation with a glider during take-offs and landings, even a winch-launch is mentioned. There are good and established reasons why we let aircraft take off and land one at a time, with lots of separation. Getting in formation with a glider with remotely controlled devices close to the ground sounds like Bubba's idea: hey y'all, watch this. Remember the Cadillac commercial filming a ground launch with a short rope? How did that turn out? Good luck with your 'non-commercial' drone flights.
BTW, I'm very involved in rc flying, including multi-copters.
Herb

Herb,

The camera I use (Panasonic GH4) has exceptional resolution (4k), speed with a fairly powerful lens. We are primarily shooting wide angle shots. The system does not need to be "in close" to the glider or tow aircraft. It is actually preferable to be at some distance and capture the glider within the broader scenery. All of the filming would be at a private airport in a controlled environment and no other operations would be allowed.

I am looking for 4 specific soaring shots:

1) My favorite shot will actually be from "behind" the winch vehicle location shooting down the rope towards the glider being winch launched (2-4k ft away). As the winch launch begins the system would depart the winch (in shot) and climb aggressively as the glider ascends downrange holding the same altitude as the winching glider for a period of a few seconds (perhaps 10).. This perspective would be interesting for showing the climb rate from 1000's of feet away. The winch rope (and it's curve) would likely show up well with the right lighting. I like to imagine the sensation of intense climb rate and altitude perspective change (hopefully with great scenery) that this would provide. Imagine Karl's place and the view from the top of his ridge for example.

http://vimeo.com/51897500 (see launch from winch roughly 2 min in)

It would also be interesting to get this same shot from behind the glider being launched.

2) The other aero launch shots would be from well behind the tow pair. One shot from directly behind and another off to the side. A changing angle relative to the glider during the directly behind shot (moving out to the side while climbing for example) would be impressive.

3) The landing shots would be from well away in approximately the opposite base/final position at low altitude (200 ft). The idea would be to follow the glider thru it's pattern from midfield downwind thru touchdown and rollout. At short final or as the glider overtakes the system toward the runway I could follow the glider in towards touchdown from behind and end up within a couple hundred feet as the glider rolls to a stop and the pilots exit..

Here is another good example that might provide an idea of the potential: http://youtu.be/8GMs58ihaJ8

Sean

One of our members captured some takeoff footage from behind the glider/towplane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3X4QaGJcjo

I believe this was with a Phantom quadcopter and a go pro 3. It runs out of forward speed pretty quick, but was still a fun angle to see.

Morgan



On Friday, August 15, 2014 6:21:16 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Herb,



The camera I use (Panasonic GH4) has exceptional resolution (4k), speed with a fairly powerful lens. We are primarily shooting wide angle shots. The system does not need to be "in close" to the glider or tow aircraft. It is actually preferable to be at some distance and capture the glider within the broader scenery. All of the filming would be at a private airport in a controlled environment and no other operations would be allowed.



I am looking for 4 specific soaring shots:



1) My favorite shot will actually be from "behind" the winch vehicle location shooting down the rope towards the glider being winch launched (2-4k ft away). As the winch launch begins the system would depart the winch (in shot) and climb aggressively as the glider ascends downrange holding the same altitude as the winching glider for a period of a few seconds (perhaps 10). This perspective would be interesting for showing the climb rate from 1000's of feet away. The winch rope (and it's curve) would likely show up well with the right lighting. I like to imagine the sensation of intense climb rate and altitude perspective change (hopefully with great scenery) that this would provide. Imagine Karl's place and the view from the top of his ridge for example.



http://vimeo.com/51897500 (see launch from winch roughly 2 min in)



It would also be interesting to get this same shot from behind the glider being launched.



2) The other aero launch shots would be from well behind the tow pair. One shot from directly behind and another off to the side. A changing angle relative to the glider during the directly behind shot (moving out to the side while climbing for example) would be impressive.



3) The landing shots would be from well away in approximately the opposite base/final position at low altitude (200 ft). The idea would be to follow the glider thru it's pattern from midfield downwind thru touchdown and rollout. At short final or as the glider overtakes the system toward the runway I could follow the glider in towards touchdown from behind and end up within a couple hundred feet as the glider rolls to a stop and the pilots exit.



Here is another good example that might provide an idea of the potential: http://youtu.be/8GMs58ihaJ8



Sean

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

Huh? I call BS on that! These guys are snooping spectators, not participants!

I'm for open season on all drones flying outside a strict limited airspace (RC flying field).

Kirk
(dusting off the old 12 gauge...)