2015 18m Nationals

On Saturday, 20 September 2014 17:17:17 UTC-6, Andy K wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 6:31:41 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:51:52 PM UTC-6, Andy K wrote:



Could anyone explain why 2 years in a row we have 18 m Nationals on the west coast? This year Minden and next year Hobbs. As far as I remember Bermuda High was willing to host the 18m Nationals in 2015. This arrangement is totally unfair to East Coast pilots.















Does that mean 2016 and 2017 are going to be on the East coast?















I know some of the decision makers read this news group maybe someone is going to comment?















AK







Andy,







I am surprised it took so long for someone to comment on the sad state of US contest planning.







Many years ago there was some basic rules that were suppose to be followed for contest planning.







1. Standard and 18M would be held together and 15M and Open would be together. 2. These two contest would be held on opposite sides of the country each year.







This logical approach would have allowed Standard pilots to flying in 15M, 15m to fly in 18M and 18M to fly in Open in alternate years when their class was not on their side of the country.







Unfortunately this plan has fallen by the wayside and we now have chaos.. In 2015 we will have both Standard and 15M on the east coast and 18M will be in the west again for an other year. For 2016 we have both Standard and 15M at the same location rather than on opposite sides of the country like it is suppose to be.







Some of us have tried to encourage a better planning system for contests and also advocated for East/West nationals to end the confusion and encourage greater participation. Why should we have to drive 2500 miles to compete in our own class with a group of quality pilots? On average only one to two pilots cross the Mississippi to compete unless a contest is Mid-continent.







I have advocated for a Request For Proposals (FRP) date of November two years in advance (November 2014 for 2016 contests for example) for contest site requests and so that a logical planning pattern could happen. Any site interested could submit a proposal and all could be evaluated at one time so that contests are held at appropriate sites and allow all pilots to fly in their own class every other year at a minimum. This lead time would allow the selection committee to encourage sites to hold contest if they did not have enough request by November in the correct side of the country.







I have become very concerned about the overall quality of the US pilots going to the Worlds because we are selecting only from those that have the money and time to drive across the country each year or those that get lucky enough to have contests line up in their half of the country during selection periods.







I am glad to see the Pan-American contest being organized for next year, just wish it was being held during the summer months when more could attend.







Hopefully the contest selection committee and the team selection committee will:



1. Plan ahead and set a date for site proposals.



2. Work to ensure that contest are evenly distributed around the country.



3. Try to avoid placing nationals on the extreme coasts that discourages pilots from attending because of the distance.



4. Change the team selection rules to recognize East and West Championships as being worth 100 team selection points.



5. Merge to team selection list for Standard, 15M and 18M so that points count across classes.







TT



Tim, yes this is chaos. It would be nice to hear from people who make these decisions. I would still like to know why Bermuda High was not selected keeping with the tradition East-West-East-...



???

The SSA web site shows the contest site selection committee as:


Chairperson Ms. Linda Murray

Member Mr Peter T Alexander

Member Mr John Lubon

Member Mr Mark Keene


If you go to this page on the SSA web site it also has complete contact information for these members.

Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific NW. State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

At 05:36 21 September 2014, Craig R. wrote:
Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific
NW.
State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

Er? So why don't you hold it in the middle of the country? Of all the
countries in the world I would have thought that the USA was the place for
a National Gliding Centre

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:36:17 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:
Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I already corrected this, just give it a break and concentrate on the fact that there are rules that were established and are not being followed and there is no explanation why exception after exception is being made.

I have no problems with exceptions as long as someone explains the reasoning behind it and it makes sense.

Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific NW. State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

Yes, by only 100 miles. I am not sure what State College PA has to do with this problem. By the way State College is not really North East so if you compare North West to North East it would be more like 2100 miles.

No need to go back and forth on this. As I said I would at least like to understand why we ended up with what we have. As Tim said this is not a well thought through schedule, certainly no one that can drive participation up.

AK

I don't know any specifics about the current situation. However, I do know that it is getting more and more difficult in getting groups to sponsor contests due to significant effort and expense. I suspect that the current situation is due to the fact that they are basically having to take whatever they can get.

Zero One

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:33:47 AM UTC-4, Larry Goddard wrote:
I don't know any specifics about the current situation. However, I do know that it is getting more and more difficult in getting groups to sponsor contests due to significant effort and expense. I suspect that the current situation is due to the fact that they are basically having to take whatever they can get.



Zero One

Larry, as far as I know Bermuda High submitted an offer to host 18 m Nationals. They also spent a huge amount of money a couple of years ago making improvements to their airfield to host heavy ballasted gliders. They cleared forest on the approach as well as cleared forest for the assembly area. They also acquired their own water tank this year as I am told.

They dedicated so much effort and financial resources to the cause of competition soaring it feels really bad they did not get to host the contest and get a little bit of money back.

AK

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 08:15:09 UTC-6, Andy K wrote:
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:36:17 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:

Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA





I already corrected this, just give it a break and concentrate on the fact that there are rules that were established and are not being followed and there is no explanation why exception after exception is being made.



I have no problems with exceptions as long as someone explains the reasoning behind it and it makes sense.



Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific NW. State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!



Yes, by only 100 miles. I am not sure what State College PA has to do with this problem. By the way State College is not really North East so if you compare North West to North East it would be more like 2100 miles.



No need to go back and forth on this. As I said I would at least like to understand why we ended up with what we have. As Tim said this is not a well thought through schedule, certainly no one that can drive participation up.



AK

Andy, if you have not you should visit SSA site and read the Site Selection Page, SailPlane Racing--Other resources--Site selection. You will see that the criteria used is vague, i.e. what is the definition of 'zone'? There are no written rules that I am aware just many guidelines and conventions that have been used over the years/decades.

In checking the 2014 FAI Nationals rulebook this is found

2.3 The Application for Sanction (AFS) form should be submitted in time for review prior to the Fall SSA Board of Directors meeting in the
calendar year two years prior to the competition.

Again by using the term 'should' wiggle room is ensured.

We can ponder all we want but IMO contacting the selection committee will be the most expedient way to get answers.

Ron Gleason

My point was made.
This thread is somewhat of a rehash of an earlier thread about USA Nationals. Here is that thread. You made similar comments then.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/no$20contests$20for$202$20years$20in$20the$20west/rec.aviation.soaring/xbLG9wqkBjg/XHNlAU8-444J
However, the thread conversation lost some interest when the west coast pilots mentioned no west coast national contests in 2013. This was also discussed a year prior with similar lack of support for the west coast pilots.
One question I have (btw, not attacking, just interested), where in the US do you live that puts you 66 hours and 4380 miles from Hobbs / 6350 miles to Montague?

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:
My point was made.

This thread is somewhat of a rehash of an earlier thread about USA Nationals. Here is that thread. You made similar comments then.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/no$20contests$20for$202$20years$20in$20the$20west/rec.aviation.soaring/xbLG9wqkBjg/XHNlAU8-444J

However, the thread conversation lost some interest when the west coast pilots mentioned no west coast national contests in 2013. This was also discussed a year prior with similar lack of support for the west coast pilots.

One question I have (btw, not attacking, just interested), where in the US do you live that puts you 66 hours and 4380 miles from Hobbs / 6350 miles to Montague?

These distances were both ways. New Hampshire