HG pilot in Brazil goes long - 450 km straight out- new source of SP pilots?

I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most.
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most.
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

Amen brother Nick!

Its the taste of going further, the challenge to stay up longer that drives HGing pilots and except for a few tow parks the physical and personal demands take there toll over the years. I flew HGers for 38 years, held regional XC records, placed well in national contests, won and place in regional contests. But to regularly fly with my HGing mates i had to carry my 85 lb glider plus harness up a steep mountain trail and after a while I would only go on the good days. Well in New England there aren't many "good" days. Waiting in a field until 2 in the morning after a 100 mile flight was loosing its luster.

At some point every HGer pilot faces a decision, either detune your equipment and fly less aggressively or quit altogether. Or they can increase their equipment performance and fly more miles and hours then they ever could before. Reach out to them and show them how to work a rudder and they will become excellent pilots.

Dennis

On Monday, October 27, 2014 6:46:22 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most..
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

Amen brother Nick!

Its the taste of going further, the challenge to stay up longer that drives HGing pilots and except for a few tow parks the physical and personal demands take there toll over the years. I flew HGers for 38 years, held regional XC records, placed well in national contests, won and place in regional contests. But to regularly fly with my HGing mates i had to carry my 85 lb glider plus harness up a steep mountain trail and after a while I would only go on the good days. Well in New England there aren't many "good" days. Waiting in a field until 2 in the morning after a 100 mile flight was loosing its luster.

At some point every HGer pilot faces a decision, either detune your equipment and fly less aggressively or quit altogether. Or they can increase their equipment performance and fly more miles and hours then they ever could before. Reach out to them and show them how to work a rudder and they will become excellent pilots.

Dennis

Amen and very well said Nick (and every one else). I flew hang gliders for nearly 20 years, and although I always knew about sailplanes and that they can fly faster and further, it didnt occur to me the real potential of sailplanes until Dan Murphy introduced me. I got immediately hooked when I realized that with a sailplane I can fly XC almost everyday and everywhere, and not just milk runs in perfect days as with hang gliders, especially in the Bay Area, where hardly anyone flies XC with HG or PG, while we regularly fly 500km flights with sailplanes year around.

Ramy

There are probably few hang glider or paraglider pilots around who are unaware of sailplanes and plenty of us who switched. I and several of my friends switched to sailplanes in the 1980s after a series of fatal accidents in our hang gliding club. I'm sure we all knew it wasn't the safest of sports (especially mountain foot-launching), but it took a couple of sharp shocks to get us to switch.

Mountain launches and cross-country retrieves sure took a lot of 4-wheel drive time!

Deflatable wings are a whole other story!

Mike

On Monday, October 27, 2014 3:16:14 PM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:
There are probably few hang glider or paraglider pilots around who are unaware of sailplanes and plenty of us who switched. I and several of my friends switched to sailplanes in the 1980s after a series of fatal accidents in our hang gliding club. I'm sure we all knew it wasn't the safest of sports (especially mountain foot-launching), but it took a couple of sharp shocks to get us to switch.

Mountain launches and cross-country retrieves sure took a lot of 4-wheel drive time!

Deflatable wings are a whole other story!

Mike

To be honest, I don't think that we can use safety as a reason to attract aging HG pilots. Maybe PG pilots. Obviously risk of injuries is magnitude lower, but not the fatality rate.

Ramy

SSA runs a small ad in the PG/HG magazine, PG/HG pilots are of course aware of the existence of sailplanes. I think pilots are not crossing over because they don't want to. It isn't cost, I would guess the majority of PG pilots that I've met could afford sailplane flying. Probably more HG pilots that switch as they are used to the pain of rigging and having to sort special transportation(roof racks instead of trailers.) Besides I'm sure HG pilots would rather disappear to the sailplane field then switch to PGs and fly in front of their old HG friends.
Changing hobbies also involves an ego barrier that can be a large hurdle, if you have been doing a hobby for ten years even if you are just OK at it, you have some standing and credibility(perhaps less then people think, but it is real to them.) Switch hobbies and you go from knowing the ropes to being the know nothing new guy. A lot of people's egos cannot handle that. As for getting them in the door Pimping FAST certificates isn't going to do it, the motivation isn't there. Maybe if you took a lesson from drug dealers and gave the first one free you might hook some converts. I went from sailplanes to PG makes me laugh how the various disciplines score converts. Such a nice reaffirming data point to your chosen chariot when someone discards what they are used to and joins you.

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 8:25:34 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I am curious if the SSA Board would support a small expenditure of funds to go out and try to get these already trained HG and PG pilots, that already know how to thermal and glide to join the SSA and to get their Glider Rating.

How does this rough proposal sound?

1. Get the contact information, for the last say 15 years, of the membership of the United Stated Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association.

2. Send out a return postage paid greeting, a welcome to learn to fly sailplanes and a inquiry of their possible interest.
Include generic "Cost to get your rating", some glossy pictures, some actual market costs for used gliders. Include the various major flight schools and major clubs and links to more local clubs.
3. Handle any positive responses professionally and get them a Mentor [ we would need to get some SSA members to do this] and or get a buddy system intact immediately, don't lose them.
Don't try and sell a ride, Sell a Rating, the whole package, books and training.
Explain the FAA is not hanging out with us and we never [ hopefully anyway!] see them or interact with them.
Try and get new prospects hooked up with others newbies in the same area so they have someone to relate to, learn with and maybe share a glider with.

4. As they move into glider ownership, keep the mentor ship going
HELP them get a good ship and trailer, not some POS
HELP them with instruments, and make sure they have good ones and that they work Correctly.
Help them launch at the right time.
Help them get out there on the good days by calling them.
Help them get on the OLC, this is called "setting the hook!" ha!


When I got into Soaring I had 2 awesome mentors, Jeff Campbell and "Glider" Bob Saunders. They helped me then and we have been a team ever since.

Trying to turn GA pilots, CAP Pilots etc. into Glider pilots just ain't working. Learning to soar is like Golf and Skiing; It is expense, takes forever and lots of smart people just don't ever click into it. And you never really master any of these sports, which actually is a major draw for most.
Believe me we have mentored alot of great GA pilots and few are going to or are into gliding today. Some for sure, but not many.
You have to want to go soaring so bad you will sacrifice a lot of stuff; Relationships, time with family, money, ignore the danger, accept spending the whole day to see it OD and rain etc etc.
Real soaring pilots are a rare breed.

I believe that there is a percentage of "soaring junkies" sitting at home that have cycled out out of HG and PG, or are about to, that would be willing to join Gliding IF it were clearly explained to them what it costs, what it takes, where to go and how happening it is in places like Moriarty, Nephi, Minden, Ely, Ridge Soaring, Seminole, Warner, Blairstown etc and all the great clubs out there.
The ease of a 5-6 hour flight, the relative ease of doing 500 km all the time.
The No more chase crew. How easy it is to stay up. Even the top guys who are very good bombout all the time; actually get them into a properly instrumented Ventus LS4, LS3 ASW 19/20 Discus etc and they go nuts.

I've forwarded your recommendation to the chair of the G&D committee. I think we can reach out. I'll contact Davis and maybe we'll hit ozreport with some items. Perhaps you and Mark, Bob, and some others can write up some items. Maybe we can get some to attend from Wallaby Ranch and other points south if there is still a winter migration. For several years at least half of the top OLC pilots in the US have had a HG background.

Frank Whiteley

I came to sailplanes after 275 hours of paragliding, which I still love. The hook for me was the fact that in the New York area, it was much easier to score airtime in a glider than in a paraglider. I have thought about this issue of "recruiting" PG and HG pilots for years. One thought is to arrange to "trade a page" in Soaring and the USHPA magazines: each issue could host a page written by a pilot of the other discipline, in order to shed some light on the respective sports, and gain access to each other's membership.

I think the big barrier is the perceived cost of learning to soar / getting the Private Pilot Glider ticket / owning a sailplane. I once sat on the launch at Ellenville not flying, waiting hour after hour for the wind to sit down, and watched sailplanes soaring the ridge over our heads. When I asked my fellow PG / HG pilots why we weren't doing that, the answer was "Sailplanes are a rich man's game." Give me a page in "Hang Gliding and Paragliding Magazine" to do a cost per hour comparison and I can clear that up. But that's a message we need time to communicate repeatedly.

Another barrier is lack of "hipness." Take a look at the USHPA magazine and you'll see what I mean -- it makes Soaring Magazine look like a poorly designed high school newspaper, or some geriatric version of that. Soaring Mag does not make soaring look "sexy," I'm sad to say. We need to hire a young, hip designer and a young, hip editor and let them have their way with our rag.

Lots of good ideas in this thread. I, for one, would be happy to "mentor" PG pilots into our little sport. A lot of these guys and gals are already really excellent soaring pilots who understand the air and how to soar in a truly low-performance (8:1 L/D) aircraft. Give them a good taste of 35:1, a two hour XC flight in the ASK 21, a $15,000 first-generation glass ship and a $30 tow and you will have more members of the SSA...at least a few more.....

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:43:03 PM UTC-4, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
"Another barrier is lack of "hipness." Take a look at the USHPA magazine
and you'll see what I mean -- it makes Soaring Magazine look like a
poorly designed high school newspaper, or some geriatric version of
that. Soaring Mag does not make soaring look "sexy," I'm sad to say. We
need to hire a young, hip designer and a young, hip editor and let them
have their way with our rag."

Paul hits the nail right on the head. Sailplanes are perceived as an old
man's game. Soaring Magazine is about as sexy as Popular Mechanics. No,
I take that back, Popular Mechanics is sexier than Soaring Magazine. One
small example: the Final Glide section. Ok, it's sad when people die but
Jesus, get it out of the magazine. It's like people who meet at the
mailbox at the retirement community where the first topic is: who died
last night? And let's take the upcoming film "Cloudbase". It's likely to
be the first really inspirational soaring film to come out of the US.
But who is depicted in the film? Old people. That simply reinforces the
opinion that many HG and PGing people have. If you want to motivate
young people from the HG and PG community then try something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBk1Bmsm8M
..all young people here.




--
gotovkotzepkoi

I guess when i started flying over 40 years ago I wasn't paying so much attention to what age everyone was. I was more interested in flying. Then i switched to sailplanes a few years ago. You sure are worried about your image.. My club has people of all ages and you would be surprised that none of us wear bibs unless we are eating a steamed Lobster!

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:56:20 PM UTC-4, HGXC wrote:
On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:43:03 PM UTC-4, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
"Another barrier is lack of "hipness."
Paragliding definitely has better filmmakers http://youtu.be/L62faWn-sa8