How to determine if your ASG29 has the large or small panel?

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:54:44 PM UTC-8, Sean Fidler wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:58:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I think an example of the Flarm display is in the Oudie/SeeYou manual.

Here are some screenshots of Oudie's flarm radar & warning.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A259UlCqlVMHl

I still think the Oudie farm warning leaves much to be desired, but its all about personal preference. You can see in the photo's that you have to read text and numbers to determine if the traffic is level, up or down. I don't see a red glider in this photo. Depending on which view your in, understanding the relative position of the "red glider" might become confusing (North up, heading, track, portrait or landscape, etc).

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A259UlCqlVMHl

Sean,

I don't fly with an Oudie but with a PowerFlarm -V7- Ultimate Le system so my screen is larger and more viewable. I get warning indications on the Ultimate Le and for close in collision warning on the Ultmate Le & V7.

Maybe the visual warning does leave something to be desired but it is also accompanied by the voice warning from the lady giving clock position and above or below feet. I believe the red traffic in picture 2 was 2.36km/1.5nm out and your SeeYou zoom level did not allow it to be seen. I call that an informational warning. The clock position will be shown relative to your glider in what ever screen orientation you have set.


Flarm tarffic can be set to zoom level of the screen. I have mine set to always so the traffic is always seen in every zoom level if it is with in that zoom level. If you are zoomed in to 1 mile you will not see the red traffic on the screen at 1.5 miles,(off the screen) but will still get the lady warning. I see flarm traffic 4 to 6 nautical miles out and really never get warnings that I am not aware of.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

We now have two usages of Flarm
- immediat warning : beep (or voice) + visual. Much better if visual is already where your eyes are.
- long time warning, other gliders watching, vario fun. This can be done by an "indoor" instrument, low in the panel, or the pda.

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 4:22:03 PM UTC+1, Richard wrote:
Yes it really is a good feature.

I think SeeYouMobile and LXNAV were the first the have the feature.

All the LXNAV Flight computers and all the Craggy Aero Ultimates and Ultimate Le have the feature.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Triadis was the first, the TR-DVS had voice Flarm warnings since 2005 (9 years ago). It is still much better than the LXNAV and other voice warnings.

Ueli

I have an LX9000 (superb instrument) and a Butterfly display. Both display Flarm info in various ways and the LX9000 also has a voice module. Occasionally the voice info is useful. However, the software does not seem to make a good job of deciding when to give a voice warning, and the voice process is too slow for a real threat. On the other hand the warning tone from the Butterfly is used much less often and only when it detects an imminent threat. I think it takes a fraction of a second to take in with peripheral vision the clock face display indicating the direction of the threat, almost simultaneously scanning outside the cockpit. Other than for immediate threats I like a radar display to show me how far away a contact is regardless of the scale set on my moving map. I would choose to have a Butterfly display or Flarmview rather than relying solely on SeeYou Mobile or LK8000.

Good stuff Richard, thanks!

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:14:48 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:54:44 PM UTC-8, Sean Fidler wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:58:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I think an example of the Flarm display is in the Oudie/SeeYou manual..

Here are some screenshots of Oudie's flarm radar & warning.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A259UlCqlVMHl

I still think the Oudie farm warning leaves much to be desired, but its all about personal preference. You can see in the photo's that you have to read text and numbers to determine if the traffic is level, up or down. I don't see a red glider in this photo. Depending on which view your in, understanding the relative position of the "red glider" might become confusing (North up, heading, track, portrait or landscape, etc).

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A259UlCqlVMHl

Sean,

I don't fly with an Oudie but with a PowerFlarm -V7- Ultimate Le system so my screen is larger and more viewable. I get warning indications on the Ultimate Le and for close in collision warning on the Ultmate Le & V7.

Maybe the visual warning does leave something to be desired but it is also accompanied by the voice warning from the lady giving clock position and above or below feet. I believe the red traffic in picture 2 was 2.36km/1.5nm out and your SeeYou zoom level did not allow it to be seen. I call that an informational warning. The clock position will be shown relative to your glider in what ever screen orientation you have set.


Flarm tarffic can be set to zoom level of the screen. I have mine set to always so the traffic is always seen in every zoom level if it is with in that zoom level. If you are zoomed in to 1 mile you will not see the red traffic on the screen at 1.5 miles,(off the screen) but will still get the lady warning. I see flarm traffic 4 to 6 nautical miles out and really never get warnings that I am not aware of.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:46:08 AM UTC-5, Pierre Vav wrote:
We now have two usages of Flarm
- immediat warning : beep (or voice) + visual. Much better if visual is already where your eyes are.
- long time warning, other gliders watching, vario fun. This can be done by an "indoor" instrument, low in the panel, or the pda.

Thanks Pierre.

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:54:34 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
...the voice process is too slow for a real threat.
...I think it takes a fraction of a second to take in with
peripheral vision the clock face display indicating the direction
of the threat, almost simultaneously scanning outside the cockpit.

Right - Voice is not the fastest. It takes a while for the message,
and it can get lost (for example if you're receiving a radio message).

The fastest is a large simple graphical "pointer" in your field
of vision, accompanied by a warning alarm. A visual presentation
is less effective when:
- its not already in your field of vision (turning head takes lots of time)
- poor contrast
- a complicated/busy/fussy display cannot be comprehended instantaneously
- buried low on the panel

Voice helps in the above situations...

Here's the SN10 presentation (4 O'clock high):
http://www.nadler.com/sn10/FLARMcol.png
We also changed the Butterfly presentation from the original to
make comprehension instantaneous...

Hope that helps frame the problem!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: We built many voice applications (phone), some quite notorious ;-)
Time for user to comprehend and use is always an issue.
Think about various annoying automated phone services you've used.

The problem is also how the voice function is implemented in the LX. The TR-DVS is much faster and very optimized to its only purpose, and it's decision when to alarm the pilot is much more reliable. However as always there are probably different opinions...