What gliders do you hate?

At 19:33 01 January 2015, Robert Buck wrote:
At 18:26 01 January 2015, kirk.stant wrote:
Hate? None so far, thank goodness! But dislike? Schweizer 2-
33 is the
obv=
ious answer (for US and Canadian pilots, at least) due to it's
atrocious
er=
gonomics, lethargic control response, and general ugliness. But
I don't so
=
much dislike it (first glider solo in one, have a lot of time in it
giving
=
rides, and still occasionally fly our club's example, just to
remind
myself=
how much nicer the other gliders are) as think that its time
has past and
=
that it was a poor effort by Schweizer, when you think that the
classic
Bla=
nik L-13 and Schleicher K-7/13s are contemporaries...

But picking on the 2-33 is too easy, so here are two mo

Schweizer 1-34. Looks like it should be a lot of fun, but it's
really
pret=
ty pedestrian to fly, with almost the worst ailerons in any Std
Class
glide=
r. I much prefer the older 1-23 - that's a fun little glider!

Peterson J-4 Javelin. Spoilers for roll control - or lack of it.
Identical=
spoilers for glidepath control, or lack of it. Ugly as sin (but a
big
comf=
ortable cockpit). A truly imaginative attempt at an inexpensive
glider,
bu=
t the cost cutting really shows. I flew one of the first ones
built, and
w=
as unimpressed - and the following day another demo flight in
it ended in
a=
pattern stall-spin fatal crash - due I believe directly to the
weak
ailero=
ns and spoilers, combined with a too high pattern, leading to
an attempted
=
low 360...

That being said, if any of these were all I had to fly and the
day looked
g=
ood, I wouldn't hesitate to jump in any of them and go fly!

Kirk
66

If Gliders are like Beer, it might go like this: After another
cracking soaring day, during the 1969 Nationals at Marfa, the
Glasflugel test pilot and I stood together on the old airbase
ramp, drinking our cans of Coors beer. The lousy capture of
each other's language led mostly to staring at the waning cu's of
the deep blue, West Texas sky. Yet savoring the watery taste of
these versions of German staple, I had to ask...but carefully:
"Herr Muller...How Do You Like Coors Beer?" He responded with
slow and diplomatic word: "Any Beer Is Better Than No Beer."
Smiling, we starred at the sky some more.
Rob RB

I misguidedly posted under a changed header so here goes again.

Nobody picked the 2-22 ; maybe you are all too young, though there a re a
few still around. Goerge Moffatt
commented in Soaring mag that the 2-33 was a big improvement over the
2-22, which gives gredence to my
noting it as the worst.

Among the 50 plus types I have flown, the worst are the 2-22 , the
Pratt-Read and probably the Tutor in which
I soloed plus the Kirby Kite II; hard to remember from 55 years ago.
Designs have improved so much that it is hard to rate the most pleasant
types, but the ASW 20, the Kestrel 19, the
Nimbus 2C and the PIk s D and E all are responsive to fly and have
satisfying performance.
I have not flown a really modern glider but the Nimbus 3T is great when
you just want to go straight.

A greybeard's recollections.

John F

At 20:28 01 January 2015, John Firth wrote:
At 19:33 01 January 2015, Robert Buck wrote:
At 18:26 01 January 2015, kirk.stant wrote:
Hate? None so far, thank goodness! But dislike? Schweizer 2-
33 is the
obv=
ious answer (for US and Canadian pilots, at least) due to it's
atrocious
er=
gonomics, lethargic control response, and general ugliness. But
I don't so
=
much dislike it (first glider solo in one, have a lot of time in it
giving
=
rides, and still occasionally fly our club's example, just to
remind
myself=
how much nicer the other gliders are) as think that its time
has past and
=
that it was a poor effort by Schweizer, when you think that the
classic
Bla=
nik L-13 and Schleicher K-7/13s are contemporaries...

But picking on the 2-33 is too easy, so here are two mo

Schweizer 1-34. Looks like it should be a lot of fun, but it's
really
pret=
ty pedestrian to fly, with almost the worst ailerons in any Std
Class
glide=
r. I much prefer the older 1-23 - that's a fun little glider!

Peterson J-4 Javelin. Spoilers for roll control - or lack of it.
Identical=
spoilers for glidepath control, or lack of it. Ugly as sin (but a
big
comf=
ortable cockpit). A truly imaginative attempt at an inexpensive
glider,
bu=
t the cost cutting really shows. I flew one of the first ones
built, and
w=
as unimpressed - and the following day another demo flight in
it ended in
a=
pattern stall-spin fatal crash - due I believe directly to the
weak
ailero=
ns and spoilers, combined with a too high pattern, leading to
an attempted
=
low 360...

That being said, if any of these were all I had to fly and the
day looked
g=
ood, I wouldn't hesitate to jump in any of them and go fly!

Kirk
66

If Gliders are like Beer, it might go like this: After another
cracking soaring day, during the 1969 Nationals at Marfa, the
Glasflugel test pilot and I stood together on the old airbase
ramp, drinking our cans of Coors beer. The lousy capture of
each other's language led mostly to staring at the waning cu's of
the deep blue, West Texas sky. Yet savoring the watery taste of
these versions of German staple, I had to ask...but carefully:
"Herr Muller...How Do You Like Coors Beer?" He responded with
slow and diplomatic word: "Any Beer Is Better Than No Beer."
Smiling, we starred at the sky some more.
Rob RB

I misguidedly posted under a changed header so here goes again.

Nobody picked the 2-22 ; maybe you are all too young, though there a re
few still around. Goerge Moffatt
commented in Soaring mag that the 2-33 was a big improvement over th
2-22, which gives gredence to my
noting it as the worst.

Among the 50 plus types I have flown, the worst are the 2-22 , th
Pratt-Read and probably the Tutor in which
I soloed plus the Kirby Kite II; hard to remember from 55 years ago.
Designs have improved so much that it is hard to rate the most pleasan
types, but the ASW 20, the Kestrel 19, the
Nimbus 2C and the PIk s D and E all are responsive to fly and hav
satisfying performance.
I have not flown a really modern glider but the Nimbus 3T is great whe
you just want to go straight.

A greybeard's recollections.

John F



I have to agree with Kirk, the Peterson J-4 Javelin. I flew one of the
first ones at Bermuda High Soaring in 1974. The handling was awful and I
still think it's one of the ugliest gliders ever. I've seen a lot of
gliders and flown more than 60 different ones.

JLH

On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 20:28:01 +0000, John Firth
wrote:

text deleted

Nobody picked the 2-22 ; maybe you are all too young, though there a re a
few still around. Goerge Moffatt
commented in Soaring mag that the 2-33 was a big improvement over the
2-22, which gives gredence to my
noting it as the worst.

Among the 50 plus types I have flown, the worst are the 2-22 , the
Pratt-Read and probably the Tutor in which I soloed
text deleted

John F

For what its worth...
In the 70's, I flew as both a student, and later a CFI, in an auto-tow
only operation that had both a 2-22 and 2-33.
As an instructor I actually preferred the 2-22 to the 2-33, largely
due to the weaker airbrakes on the '22. This factor magnified the
importance of proper circuit planning.

Bob

I prefer the roll rate of the 2-22. Sink rate, not so much.