Boxing the wake cracks Pawnee tail tubings or long term fatigue?

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:35:43 AM UTC-5, mt wrote:
Our 235 hp Pawnee has again some cracks in the tail tubing. One of them is on the bottom of the vertical member where rudder hinges are welded. The crack is between the lowest and the middle hinges.

As a glider instructor and tow pilot (over 35 years) I don't see why we should keep "boxing the wake", as part of glider pilot training. Having said that, contrary to some opinions in my club, I don't believe aggressive boxing the wake is the only contributing factor in our costly maintenance issues. FYI, our Pawnee has been hangared at least in the past 20 years!

What are your experiences:
1- with Pawnee tail fatigues
2- cause of repeated cracks, method of usage
3- methods of fixing them better next time
4- what contributtes to more stress on the tail tubing: hitting rudder stops in everyday operations, boxing the wake, hard landings, or rope breaks (weak link about 1250 lb).
Many Thanks,
C1

I highly doubt that boxing the wake has anything to do with the problem you are describing. The rope loads are not that high as to cause additional load.
I'm not sure why one would ever bang the rudder hard against the stops. Seems like a poor technique.
The most likely cause, in my experience would be the beating the structure takes doing 7-8 landings an hour.
Rather than repair, it may pay to replace the rudder post with new.
Boxing the wake is a useful training exercise and should not be reduced or eliminated because of a tail post issue.
42 years instructor and tow pilot.
UH

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 12:36:01 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:35:43 AM UTC-5, mt wrote:
Our 235 hp Pawnee has again some cracks in the tail tubing. One of them is on the bottom of the vertical member where rudder hinges are welded. The crack is between the lowest and the middle hinges.

As a glider instructor and tow pilot (over 35 years) I don't see why we should keep "boxing the wake", as part of glider pilot training. Having said that, contrary to some opinions in my club, I don't believe aggressive boxing the wake is the only contributing factor in our costly maintenance issues. FYI, our Pawnee has been hangared at least in the past 20 years!

What are your experiences:
1- with Pawnee tail fatigues
2- cause of repeated cracks, method of usage
3- methods of fixing them better next time
4- what contributtes to more stress on the tail tubing: hitting rudder stops in everyday operations, boxing the wake, hard landings, or rope breaks (weak link about 1250 lb).
Many Thanks,
C1

I highly doubt that boxing the wake has anything to do with the problem you are describing. The rope loads are not that high as to cause additional load.
I'm not sure why one would ever bang the rudder hard against the stops. Seems like a poor technique.
The most likely cause, in my experience would be the beating the structure takes doing 7-8 landings an hour.
Rather than repair, it may pay to replace the rudder post with new.
Boxing the wake is a useful training exercise and should not be reduced or eliminated because of a tail post issue.
42 years instructor and tow pilot.
UH

I agree, I can't see very high loads from "boxing the wake" as you will turn the towplane 1st.
I CAN see the abuse from the tail hitting the ground (on landing), rough surface banging the tailwheel, tight "lock" on the tailwheel putting bending/twisting loads when turning on the ground, etc.

As to whether or not to teach "boxing the wake", I also think it's worthwhile to do. Better in "training" than "learn as you go" if you get out of position.