K2 vs. StarkPower LiFePo4 batteries

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 7:00:07 AM UTC-8, Jim White wrote:
At 11:33 03 February 2015, wrote:
We have been selling the Starkpower battery for more than a year now.
Start=
ed out very cautiously - selling only a few to a few of our steady
customer=
s. We have now sold several hundred with no complaints. They really are
gr=
eat and are exactly the same size as the battery they replace.

One caution is you must use the special charger (inexpensive) that shuts
of=
f when the battery reaches a fully charged state.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove, Inc
Ridge Soaring Gliderport

www.eglider.org

Tom, I want to fit Stark batteries to my ASW27 and am aware of their advice
re charging. Problem is that three years ago I fitted at great expense
Strobl solar panels with their OS4 charge controller. This controller is
designed for two SLA batteries and produces approx. 800ma shared between
the batteries. With SLA this will bring them up to full charge over time
and maintain them at c. 13.6 Volts. The panels have an open circuit max
voltage of 17V.

When flying I draw at least 800ma so the panels are just helping to
lengthen the operating time of my batteries so I do not see this would be a
problem but with the instruments turned off the panels would probably be
trickle charging. What is your opinion? If the internal battery circuitry
is managing the battery would that not shut down the charge when full?

I suppose that I could add a circuit to turn off the power completely at
14.6v but that would be a pain.

Any knowledgeable advice welcome.

Jim

Call Starkpower. They are very helpful on the phone. Since the LFP charger shuts off at 14V, the 13.6 set point of your regulator is probably fine - but it may depend on how it is regulating.

I'll preface my remarks with the statement that I sell K2 batteries.

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee to the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their batteries UL certified and listed.

These items account for some of the price difference.

The K2 also have a higher Watt-hour rating at 123 vs 115 for the Stark and the K2 are rated for 25 amp continuous discharge vs 15 for the Stark. The K2's also have a better temperature range.

In my opinion, the K2 is a superior product and is worth the extra cost.

I sell K2 batteries with the protection module for $150 US and chargers for $30 US and will have some on hand at the Seniors at Seminole Lake. For any one interested in purchasing a K2, contact me at the address below.

Dave Springford
dave at foxonecorp dot com

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 6:50:28 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford wrote:

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee to the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their batteries UL certified and listed.

This wins my dollar. I'd be concerned that the internals of Starkpower would change from batch to batch. The blatant ripoff of 'Stark Industries' from the 'Ironman' franchise is a red flag.

I also don't buy baby formula that is made in China.

Of course I buy all sorts of non-critical well made components/products from China. And they do a good job on things like the Iphone. But any commodity item like batteries is going to be a 'race to the bottom'.

I've no certainty that K2 is any more robust, but one can hope. UL labs is still a good operation.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 4:20:56 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 6:50:28 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford wrote:

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee to the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their batteries UL certified and listed.

This wins my dollar. I'd be concerned that the internals of Starkpower would change from batch to batch. The blatant ripoff of 'Stark Industries' from the 'Ironman' franchise is a red flag.

I also don't buy baby formula that is made in China.

Of course I buy all sorts of non-critical well made components/products from China. And they do a good job on things like the Iphone. But any commodity item like batteries is going to be a 'race to the bottom'.

I've no certainty that K2 is any more robust, but one can hope. UL labs is still a good operation.

Check the K2 Web Site the K2s are made in Henderson, NV and China. I suspect the cells are made in China and packaged in Henderson.

Richard

After having two dogs piosoned by Chinese dog food (did not even know the food was made in China) I try very hard not to buy anything made in China. Plus they are well know to steal as much intellectual property as possible.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 4:20:56 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:

I also don't buy baby formula that is made in China.

Of course I buy all sorts of non-critical well made components/products from China. And they do a good job on things like the Iphone. But any commodity item like batteries is going to be a 'race to the bottom'.

I've no certainty that K2 is any more robust, but one can hope. UL labs is still a good operation.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:50:28 PM UTC-8, Dave Springford wrote:
I'll preface my remarks with the statement that I sell K2 batteries.

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee to the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their batteries UL certified and listed.

These items account for some of the price difference.

The K2 also have a higher Watt-hour rating at 123 vs 115 for the Stark and the K2 are rated for 25 amp continuous discharge vs 15 for the Stark. The K2's also have a better temperature range.

In my opinion, the K2 is a superior product and is worth the extra cost.

I sell K2 batteries with the protection module for $150 US and chargers for $30 US and will have some on hand at the Seniors at Seminole Lake. For any one interested in purchasing a K2, contact me at the address below.

Dave Springford
dave at foxonecorp dot com

I don't believe anyone is building cells in North America for the consumer market. These are all coming from China. It makes no sense at all to build the BMS boards here either. So as a point of differentiation between vendors, there is nothing in it.

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 12:08:54 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:50:28 PM UTC-8, Dave Springford wrote:
I'll preface my remarks with the statement that I sell K2 batteries.

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee to the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their batteries UL certified and listed.

These items account for some of the price difference.

The K2 also have a higher Watt-hour rating at 123 vs 115 for the Stark and the K2 are rated for 25 amp continuous discharge vs 15 for the Stark. The K2's also have a better temperature range.

In my opinion, the K2 is a superior product and is worth the extra cost.

I sell K2 batteries with the protection module for $150 US and chargers for $30 US and will have some on hand at the Seniors at Seminole Lake. For any one interested in purchasing a K2, contact me at the address below.

Dave Springford
dave at foxonecorp dot com

I don't believe anyone is building cells in North America for the consumer market. These are all coming from China. It makes no sense at all to build the BMS boards here either. So as a point of differentiation between vendors, there is nothing in it.

As an avid "Electric RC'er", while you are likely correct that most cells come from a limited number of places, where they end up can be a case of, "Give me cells" vs. "I don't want seconds/low performers".....
Price is not always a guarantee (there is a "very high priced" LiPO hobby vendor that has performance numbers similar to "mid level" vendors.....), but it can help out as well as "post sale support".

Not saying anything for/against any vendor mentioned here, just a different view.

Reading the blurb referenced it would seem that the A123 batteries (which
are available from http://www.buya123batteries.com) seem to have the best
protection / charging electronics they only rated at 5Ah although this
should provide better performance than a 7Ah SLA.

The higher power batteries do not seem to have all the tricks in the
electronics.

Interesting note: although A123 is a US company using MIT derived
technology, they are owned by the Chinese!


At 17:37 04 February 2015, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 12:08:54 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:50:28 PM UTC-8, Dave Springford
wrote:
I'll preface my remarks with the statement that I sell K2 batteries.

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee
to
the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their
batteries UL certified and listed.

These items account for some of the price difference.

The K2 also have a higher Watt-hour rating at 123 vs 115 for the
Stark
and the K2 are rated for 25 amp continuous discharge vs 15 for the Stark.
The K2's also have a better temperature range.

In my opinion, the K2 is a superior product and is worth the extra
cost.

I sell K2 batteries with the protection module for $150 US and
chargers
for $30 US and will have some on hand at the Seniors at Seminole Lake.
For
any one interested in purchasing a K2, contact me at the address below.

Dave Springford
dave at foxonecorp dot com

I don't believe anyone is building cells in North America for the
consumer market. These are all coming from China. It makes no sense at
all
to build the BMS boards here either. So as a point of differentiation
between vendors, there is nothing in it.

As an avid "Electric RC'er", while you are likely correct that most cells
come from a limited number of places, where they end up can be a case of,
"Give me cells" vs. "I don't want seconds/low performers".....
Price is not always a guarantee (there is a "very high priced" LiPO hobby
vendor that has performance numbers similar to "mid level" vendors.....),
but it can help out as well as "post sale support".

Not saying anything for/against any vendor mentioned here, just a
different
view.

On Thursday, 5 February 2015 04:30:04 UTC-7, Jim White wrote:
Reading the blurb referenced it would seem that the A123 batteries (which
are available from http://www.buya123batteries.com) seem to have the best
protection / charging electronics they only rated at 5Ah although this
should provide better performance than a 7Ah SLA.

The higher power batteries do not seem to have all the tricks in the
electronics.

Interesting note: although A123 is a US company using MIT derived
technology, they are owned by the Chinese!


At 17:37 04 February 2015, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 12:08:54 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:50:28 PM UTC-8, Dave Springford
wrote:
I'll preface my remarks with the statement that I sell K2 batteries.

The K2's are made in the USA, not Chinese knock-offs. K2 pays a fee
to
the patent holder while the knock-off's do not. K2 has also had their
batteries UL certified and listed.

These items account for some of the price difference.

The K2 also have a higher Watt-hour rating at 123 vs 115 for the
Stark
and the K2 are rated for 25 amp continuous discharge vs 15 for the Stark.
The K2's also have a better temperature range.

In my opinion, the K2 is a superior product and is worth the extra
cost.

I sell K2 batteries with the protection module for $150 US and
chargers
for $30 US and will have some on hand at the Seniors at Seminole Lake.
For
any one interested in purchasing a K2, contact me at the address below.

Dave Springford
dave at foxonecorp dot com

I don't believe anyone is building cells in North America for the
consumer market. These are all coming from China. It makes no sense at
all
to build the BMS boards here either. So as a point of differentiation
between vendors, there is nothing in it.

As an avid "Electric RC'er", while you are likely correct that most cells
come from a limited number of places, where they end up can be a case of,
"Give me cells" vs. "I don't want seconds/low performers".....
Price is not always a guarantee (there is a "very high priced" LiPO hobby
vendor that has performance numbers similar to "mid level" vendors.....),
but it can help out as well as "post sale support".

Not saying anything for/against any vendor mentioned here, just a
different
view.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123_Systems as you can read this company started out in Massachusetts and received US Government grants, went bankrupt and was bough by the Chinese.