iGlide

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 5:24:46 AM UTC-8, ben wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-5, ben wrote:
If you are an Air Avionics iGlide user, please share your evaluation.
Also interested in knowing if you are happy with the sunlight
readability of your iPhone. Is iPhone 6 brighter than iPhone 5?

Does anyone have experience with both iGlide and WinPilot for iPhone? Please compare.

I have both at current release level, and have used both since they were first offered. Both have a much more advanced user interface than the other offerings available (I also have and have run Winpilot PDA, SYM, XCSoar, LK8000, SN10, GlideNav and some of their predecessors). Both will do stand-alone GPS or external GPS/barometrics (though they must be connected through WiFi). Here is my take:

WinPilot iOS:

Pro:

* Less expensive
* Better choice of graphics/fonts for small screen, improves legibility
* More flexible task editing
* Choice of map overlays/styles
* Integrated airport database similar to Winpilot PDA

Cons:
* Buggier, support often slow responding
* More complicated task editing
* Less configurability/accessibility to "nav box" information

iGlide:

Pro:
* Very slick and fluid full iOS user interface - easily a decade ahead of SYM, XCSoar, etc.
* Very good integration with the Butterfly Vario
* One touch task editing
* Very configurable presentation and style via XML style template
* Beautiful terrain maps
* When used with Butterfly vario, instantaneous wind driven thermal assistant is surprisingly good
* Good support and relatively bug free
* Instant access (finger swipe) to endless fully configurable nav box information

Con:
* More expensive, particularly pro version
* No free try-before-buy version
* Some fonts/graphics too small for small screen and middle aged eyes
* No barometric based thermal assistant
* Some US tasking features not implemented


That is what springs to mind in 10 minutes thought. I will continue to try to use both, a new version of Winpilot was just released (and seems nicely updated) and there is an update to iGlide coming this spring I am told. I would recommend an iPhone 6, and preferably 6 Plus for their larger screens. I have used these on a 5s the last two seasons and you either need young eyes, or bifocals and mount the iPhone closer to you than you would need to with say an Oudie class PDA. I will be getting a 6 Plus for the upcoming season, it has as big a screen as anything out there. The brightness of these is in the 550 nit range, vs. 800 or a bit more for the OudieII/Avier. However the screen resolution is maybe 5 times better which helps. You may want to consider one of the many anti-reflective screen overlays, as reflections are the worst problem. All of the iPads are down below 400 nits, and wash out pretty badly in the sun.

The phone will only run maybe 3 hours on its internal battery, so you need to supply ships power to it. The current draw for an iphone 5s isn't too bad, about 400 ma at full brightness. Another thing to consider is that all iPhones have thermal protection, in the bright sun on a hot day on the ramp at Truckee (80 - 90 deg F) and no air circulation I have had them shut down.. At 18000 ft and 20 deg F ambient it isn't a problem. You need to mount them where they can receive some air circulation and/or are shaded from direct sun.

Do you have any specific questions?

What US tasking procedures aren't supported by iGlide? I'm considering buying one or the other as XCSoar is ending their windows CE support.

1 or Zero turn MAT tasking is not supported, that is for sure.

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-8, Greg Delp wrote:
What US tasking procedures aren't supported by iGlide? I'm considering buying one or the other as XCSoar is ending their windows CE support.

I am not much of a racer, maybe John Carlyle will step in here with more information.

The tasks supported by iGlide are Free, Speed (AT), Speed AAT and Distance AAT.

Free task is like touring and you are allowed to move and add waypoints during the task, these are cylinders only and all the same.

Speed allows all the normal types of turn point characteristics but will not allow you to add or subtract them from the task. You can add points for weather or terrain management, but these do not have turnpoint characteristics - they are simple points.

Speed AAT is an AAT with a minimum time, Distance AAT is an AAT with a maximum time. Again these will not allow you to add or subtract waypoints, though you can move the waypoint within the cylinders at will (and all the appropriate calculations are done). Again you can add waypoints to bend your course but these have no characteristics like cylinder radius etc. and are not treated as an assigned area.

Missing is the ability to add AAT turnpoints on the fly without exiting the task, editing it, then restarting it and advancing up to where you are. Or at least I don't know how to do that.

It has automatic optimization for FAI and OLC tasks.

I believe Air/Butterfly said they were intending to add US rules tasks over the winter but I haven't seen them yet.


John?

Jon touched on most of the iGlide task features. Butterfly has said they will be putting US Rules into iGlide, but they haven't done so yet. This will be the ability to define and fly MAT tasks, as well as the ability to move the actual turn point within the 1 mile circle in an AT to get more accurate statistics.

In addition to what Jon described for the Speed (AT), Speed AAT and Distance AAT tasks, they also permit multiple types of turn points, including Start Line, Finish Line, Start Cylinder, Finish Cylinder, Cylinder, Sector and Keyhole (a cylinder and sector combination). You can change many properties of a turn point (size, bisector angle, included angle), as well as define a minimum altitude, a maximum altitude, and a maximum speed for each turn point. You can drag turn points to different spots in the task list, delete turn points, add new turn points, or even invert a whole route.

When you make a start a window pops up for a few seconds with your start time. If you then go back into the start area and leave once more, iGlide treats that as a new start. Unfortunately there is no timer to help you stay below the start altitude for a set time if you reenter the start area.

As Jon said, there is no way to add or delete turn points once the task is activated. You can exit the task, edit it, and then restart it, but you'll lose all your flight statistics and unless you are in the start gate you won't get another start, either.

The list of in-flight statistics you can get is very long, and should satisfy any racer. Side views of the airspace can be seen along with the terrain along your present flight path (or route), as well as a barogram of your flight. You can add, delete and shuffle statistics and views as you wish, and place them at either the top of the screen or the bottom of the screen as you desire.

Hope this helps.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 10:04:52 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-8, Greg Delp wrote:
What US tasking procedures aren't supported by iGlide? I'm considering buying one or the other as XCSoar is ending their windows CE support.

I am not much of a racer, maybe John Carlyle will step in here with more information.

The tasks supported by iGlide are Free, Speed (AT), Speed AAT and Distance AAT.

Free task is like touring and you are allowed to move and add waypoints during the task, these are cylinders only and all the same.

Speed allows all the normal types of turn point characteristics but will not allow you to add or subtract them from the task. You can add points for weather or terrain management, but these do not have turnpoint characteristics - they are simple points.

Speed AAT is an AAT with a minimum time, Distance AAT is an AAT with a maximum time. Again these will not allow you to add or subtract waypoints, though you can move the waypoint within the cylinders at will (and all the appropriate calculations are done). Again you can add waypoints to bend your course but these have no characteristics like cylinder radius etc. and are not treated as an assigned area.

Missing is the ability to add AAT turnpoints on the fly without exiting the task, editing it, then restarting it and advancing up to where you are. Or at least I don't know how to do that.

It has automatic optimization for FAI and OLC tasks.

I believe Air/Butterfly said they were intending to add US rules tasks over the winter but I haven't seen them yet.


John?

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 7:40:23 AM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:
Jon touched on most of the iGlide task features. Butterfly has said they will be putting US Rules into iGlide, but they haven't done so yet. This will be the ability to define and fly MAT tasks, as well as the ability to move the actual turn point within the 1 mile circle in an AT to get more accurate statistics.

In addition to what Jon described for the Speed (AT), Speed AAT and Distance AAT tasks, they also permit multiple types of turn points, including Start Line, Finish Line, Start Cylinder, Finish Cylinder, Cylinder, Sector and Keyhole (a cylinder and sector combination). You can change many properties of a turn point (size, bisector angle, included angle), as well as define a minimum altitude, a maximum altitude, and a maximum speed for each turn point. You can drag turn points to different spots in the task list, delete turn points, add new turn points, or even invert a whole route.

When you make a start a window pops up for a few seconds with your start time. If you then go back into the start area and leave once more, iGlide treats that as a new start. Unfortunately there is no timer to help you stay below the start altitude for a set time if you reenter the start area.

As Jon said, there is no way to add or delete turn points once the task is activated. You can exit the task, edit it, and then restart it, but you'll lose all your flight statistics and unless you are in the start gate you won't get another start, either.

The list of in-flight statistics you can get is very long, and should satisfy any racer. Side views of the airspace can be seen along with the terrain along your present flight path (or route), as well as a barogram of your flight. You can add, delete and shuffle statistics and views as you wish, and place them at either the top of the screen or the bottom of the screen as you desire.

Hope this helps.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 10:04:52 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-8, Greg Delp wrote:
What US tasking procedures aren't supported by iGlide? I'm considering buying one or the other as XCSoar is ending their windows CE support.

I am not much of a racer, maybe John Carlyle will step in here with more information.

The tasks supported by iGlide are Free, Speed (AT), Speed AAT and Distance AAT.

Free task is like touring and you are allowed to move and add waypoints during the task, these are cylinders only and all the same.

Speed allows all the normal types of turn point characteristics but will not allow you to add or subtract them from the task. You can add points for weather or terrain management, but these do not have turnpoint characteristics - they are simple points.

Speed AAT is an AAT with a minimum time, Distance AAT is an AAT with a maximum time. Again these will not allow you to add or subtract waypoints, though you can move the waypoint within the cylinders at will (and all the appropriate calculations are done). Again you can add waypoints to bend your course but these have no characteristics like cylinder radius etc. and are not treated as an assigned area.

Missing is the ability to add AAT turnpoints on the fly without exiting the task, editing it, then restarting it and advancing up to where you are.. Or at least I don't know how to do that.

It has automatic optimization for FAI and OLC tasks.

I believe Air/Butterfly said they were intending to add US rules tasks over the winter but I haven't seen them yet.


John?

John, you can move the TP within a cylinder in an AAT task now, no? It lets me drag the TP anywhere, but confined to the cylinder. Final distance is instantly updated as well as other stats. It also lets you do this for other TP shapes.

Yes, Jon, you can move the TP within the AAT task type turn zone. You cannot move the TP within the AT task type turn circle, though. US rules allow the latter to help reduce congestion a bit.

-John, Q3


On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 11:25:20 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
John, you can move the TP within a cylinder in an AAT task now, no? It lets me drag the TP anywhere, but confined to the cylinder. Final distance is instantly updated as well as other stats. It also lets you do this for other TP shapes.

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 9:22:35 AM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:
Yes, Jon, you can move the TP within the AAT task type turn zone. You cannot move the TP within the AT task type turn circle, though. US rules allow the latter to help reduce congestion a bit.

-John, Q3


On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 11:25:20 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
John, you can move the TP within a cylinder in an AAT task now, no? It lets me drag the TP anywhere, but confined to the cylinder. Final distance is instantly updated as well as other stats. It also lets you do this for other TP shapes.

Right-o. In fact it does the distances etc assuming optimum intersection with the cylinder boundary relative to course I think.

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 8:34:38 AM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 5:24:46 AM UTC-8, ben wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-5, ben wrote:
If you are an Air Avionics iGlide user, please share your evaluation.
Also interested in knowing if you are happy with the sunlight
readability of your iPhone. Is iPhone 6 brighter than iPhone 5?

Does anyone have experience with both iGlide and WinPilot for iPhone? Please compare.

I have both at current release level, and have used both since they were first offered. Both have a much more advanced user interface than the other offerings available (I also have and have run Winpilot PDA, SYM, XCSoar, LK8000, SN10, GlideNav and some of their predecessors). Both will do stand-alone GPS or external GPS/barometrics (though they must be connected through WiFi). Here is my take:

WinPilot iOS:

Pro:

* Less expensive
* Better choice of graphics/fonts for small screen, improves legibility
* More flexible task editing
* Choice of map overlays/styles
* Integrated airport database similar to Winpilot PDA

Cons:
* Buggier, support often slow responding
* More complicated task editing
* Less configurability/accessibility to "nav box" information

iGlide:

Pro:
* Very slick and fluid full iOS user interface - easily a decade ahead of SYM, XCSoar, etc.
* Very good integration with the Butterfly Vario
* One touch task editing
* Very configurable presentation and style via XML style template
* Beautiful terrain maps
* When used with Butterfly vario, instantaneous wind driven thermal assistant is surprisingly good
* Good support and relatively bug free
* Instant access (finger swipe) to endless fully configurable nav box information

Con:
* More expensive, particularly pro version
* No free try-before-buy version
* Some fonts/graphics too small for small screen and middle aged eyes
* No barometric based thermal assistant
* Some US tasking features not implemented


That is what springs to mind in 10 minutes thought. I will continue to try to use both, a new version of Winpilot was just released (and seems nicely updated) and there is an update to iGlide coming this spring I am told. I would recommend an iPhone 6, and preferably 6 Plus for their larger screens. I have used these on a 5s the last two seasons and you either need young eyes, or bifocals and mount the iPhone closer to you than you would need to with say an Oudie class PDA. I will be getting a 6 Plus for the upcoming season, it has as big a screen as anything out there. The brightness of these is in the 550 nit range, vs. 800 or a bit more for the OudieII/Avier. However the screen resolution is maybe 5 times better which helps. You may want to consider one of the many anti-reflective screen overlays, as reflections are the worst problem. All of the iPads are down below 400 nits, and wash out pretty badly in the sun.

The phone will only run maybe 3 hours on its internal battery, so you need to supply ships power to it. The current draw for an iphone 5s isn't too bad, about 400 ma at full brightness. Another thing to consider is that all iPhones have thermal protection, in the bright sun on a hot day on the ramp at Truckee (80 - 90 deg F) and no air circulation I have had them shut down. At 18000 ft and 20 deg F ambient it isn't a problem. You need to mount them where they can receive some air circulation and/or are shaded from direct sun.

Do you have any specific questions?

jfitch wrote:

"* Integrated airport database similar to Winpilot PDA *"
This is one of the features I always liked better than all the others.
However this feature was not updated (as in totally out of date) now for two years. When I asked about it the answer was that the IOS version is where it's at now ( despite the fact that the Windows version is still available for sale).
Who is to say that the IOS aviation/airport database will be updated in the future with this attitude??