best mil+aviation writers?

I collect books about the air war in Southeast Asia circa 1964 to 1975.
Here are my favorite works about that period:

When Thunder Rolled -- Ed Rasimus.
Anything by Jack Broughton.
IMHO, these are the definitive books about the F-105 mission during
Rolling Thunder. Ed disagrees with me, but I'll give an honorable mention
to the book by Gen. Bell as well.

Over the Beach -- Zalin Grant.
The Heart of a Man -- Frank Elkins.
Captain Hook -- Wynn Foster.
On Yankee Station -- John Nichols & Barrett Tillman
Flight of the Intruder -- Stephen Coonts.
Wilcox' book (forget the name) about the creation of Top Gun. Perhaps
Scream of Eagles?
Any novel by Gerry Carroll.
These are the best books about naval aviation in that peried. If you're a
naval aviation fan, you should should also seek out the Motorbooks
collection of articles from the Naval Safety Center's Approach magazine.
Every one is based on actual events, and they are terrific.

Clashes
The Eleven Days of Christmas
both by Marshal Michel
Definitive studies of the air-to-air war over NVN and the Linebacker II
campaign, respectively.

"Paul Michael Brown" wrote in message
news
I collect books about the air war in Southeast Asia circa 1964 to 1975.
Here are my favorite works about that period:

When Thunder Rolled -- Ed Rasimus.
Anything by Jack Broughton.
IMHO, these are the definitive books about the F-105 mission during
Rolling Thunder. Ed disagrees with me, but I'll give an honorable mention
to the book by Gen. Bell as well.

Over the Beach -- Zalin Grant.
The Heart of a Man -- Frank Elkins.
Captain Hook -- Wynn Foster.
On Yankee Station -- John Nichols & Barrett Tillman
Flight of the Intruder -- Stephen Coonts.
Wilcox' book (forget the name) about the creation of Top Gun. Perhaps
Scream of Eagles?
Any novel by Gerry Carroll.

Carrol claimed to be a Vietnam veteran who was shot down three times (just
ask Tom Clancy, who vouched for him in each of his three novels, including
the last one that was printed after his death). Nice story--if it were true.
Sadly, it is not. He was a navy helo pilot, but he never served in Vietnam.
Burkett and Whitley revealed the truth behind this sham Vietnam vet in
"Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of its Heroes and its
History" back in 1998. While I recall liking his books, learning the above
has left me unwilling to ever recommend them to anyone else.

Brooks

These are the best books about naval aviation in that peried. If you're a
naval aviation fan, you should should also seek out the Motorbooks
collection of articles from the Naval Safety Center's Approach magazine.
Every one is based on actual events, and they are terrific.

Clashes
The Eleven Days of Christmas
both by Marshal Michel
Definitive studies of the air-to-air war over NVN and the Linebacker II
campaign, respectively.

Paul Michael Brown wrote:

I collect books about the air war in Southeast Asia circa 1964 to 1975.
Here are my favorite works about that period:

When Thunder Rolled -- Ed Rasimus.
Anything by Jack Broughton.

I'll take "Going Downtown" over "Thud Ridge".

IMHO, these are the definitive books about the F-105 mission during
Rolling Thunder. Ed disagrees with me, but I'll give an honorable mention
to the book by Gen. Bell as well.

As would I. Gene Basel's "Pak Six" is okay, but less informative in the areas
of interest to me..

Over the Beach -- Zalin Grant.
The Heart of a Man -- Frank Elkins.
Captain Hook -- Wynn Foster.
On Yankee Station -- John Nichols & Barrett Tillman
Flight of the Intruder -- Stephen Coonts.
Wilcox' book (forget the name) about the creation of Top Gun. Perhaps
Scream of Eagles?
Any novel by Gerry Carroll.
These are the best books about naval aviation in that peried.

You've left out "Alpha Strike Vietnam," a chronological collection by year of
firsthand accounts. Kind of like "Fast Movers," but unlike most such
collections, this one concentrates on the attack pilots flying
A-1/A-4/A-6/A-7, irather than the fighters. Many of the navy attack types
mentioned in various books above were interviewed for the book. And I'd put
Tom Wilson's novels, or at least "Termite Hill", which like "Flight of the
Intruder" and most first novels by pilots is largely based on the experiences
of the author (with one presumes a considerable amount of "improvements" to
the story when it comes to the sexual escapades of one of the main characters,
Wilson's alter ego), on the list. Wilson was a Weasel Bear at Takhli late '66
- early '67. Linking up with that, Anthony Thornborough's non-fiction book
"Iron Hand: Smashing the Enemy's Air Defenses" is a must read on that subject,
even though it isn't just dedicated to Vietnam. it contains far better
descriptions of the various RWR, jammer and ARM capabilities of that era, with
photos showing the equipment and describing its operation than I've found
anywhere else.

Guy

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Guy Alcala
confessed the following:

I'll take "Going Downtown" over "Thud Ridge".

I've read Thud Ridge at least 6 times, but Going Downtown only once. I
was put off with a minor detail, his description of an RF-101
shootdown in Nov 1964. He sorta kinda has the name right, Bert Walls
(IIRC) is actually Burt Waltz (currently residing near Hickam AFB)
and some of the cavalier attitude (IMO) he attributed to BW is not how
Burt remembers it.

Burt does blame his tactics, the target he got shotdown over had a
37mm site which was credited with downing an F-100 (William Martin
KIA) that was escorting an RF-101 three days prior. Just before
starting engines Burt was handed an additional target (this gunsite
road intersection) by his Det Commander George Hall. This target was
very close to Burt's last planned target, so the bad guys were given a
heads up. Instead of leaving the area and coming back in 10-15
minutes, Burt flew a wide arc above an undercast around the north side
to the east for an East-West photo run.

Burt flat out says he (obviously) didn't get far enough away and the
gunners lit him up as soon as he descended through the cloud deck. His
jet was engulfed in flames but ejected unscathed. His parachute
descent ended about 80-100' up in the trees. He damn near killed
himself when then locally modified personal lowering device (just a
long piece of rope) that he had poorly tied to a limb, gave way with
Burt about 75' above the ground.

Happy ending all around, an Air America helo rescued him. He even has
pictures of himself laying on the floor of the helo. It took over a
year to get back on flying status.

Alas I donated "Going Downtown," to my local library. Guy, unlike you
I buy lots of books, parting with them is almost unthinkable, no
qualms with GD.

As would I. Gene Basel's "Pak Six" is okay, but less informative in the areas
of interest to me..

I also like Al Lenski's "Magic 100."

You've left out "Alpha Strike Vietnam," a chronological collection by year of
firsthand accounts. Kind of like "Fast Movers," but unlike most such
collections, this one concentrates on the attack pilots flying
A-1/A-4/A-6/A-7, irather than the fighters.

I enjoyed ASV, couldn't finish FM (and yet I liked Sherwood's Korean
effort "Offiecers in flight Suits."). FM suffered the same fate as GD
and now resides in a local library.

I really enjoyed was George Marrett's "Cheating Death," combined with
Byron Hukee's http://skyraider.org/hook/ and Tilford's "The USAF
Search and Rescue in SEA," they make a good trio.

Linking up with that, Anthony Thornborough's non-fiction book
"Iron Hand: Smashing the Enemy's Air Defenses" is a must read...

Agree.

Juavt

Robey Price wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Guy Alcala
confessed the following:

I'll take "Going Downtown" over "Thud Ridge".

I've read Thud Ridge at least 6 times, but Going Downtown only once. I
was put off with a minor detail, his description of an RF-101
shootdown in Nov 1964. He sorta kinda has the name right, Bert Walls
(IIRC) is actually Burt Waltz (currently residing near Hickam AFB)
and some of the cavalier attitude (IMO) he attributed to BW is not how
Burt remembers it.

snip

Alas I donated "Going Downtown," to my local library. Guy, unlike you
I buy lots of books, parting with them is almost unthinkable, no
qualms with GD.

I'd be sleeping in the car with the books overflowing the house if I bought
everything I read. I confess to having problems with Broughton's idiosyncratic
spelling in "GD" ('Oerlicon,' indeed), and "Thud Ridge" is better writing, but I
know the story -- I'm after the technical stuff, and "GD" provides more of that
than "TR".

As would I. Gene Basel's "Pak Six" is okay, but less informative in the areas
of interest to me..

I also like Al Lenski's "Magic 100."

Haven't found that one yet.

You've left out "Alpha Strike Vietnam," a chronological collection by year of
firsthand accounts. Kind of like "Fast Movers," but unlike most such
collections, this one concentrates on the attack pilots flying
A-1/A-4/A-6/A-7, irather than the fighters.

I enjoyed ASV, couldn't finish FM (and yet I liked Sherwood's Korean
effort "Offiecers in flight Suits."). FM suffered the same fate as GD
and now resides in a local library.

I wasn't all that impressed by it either - ISTR that Sherwood lacked aviation
background, which tended to throw jarring notes into the book that would bring me
up[ short. But I got to read the short form of Ed's 105 tour before he wrote
"WTR," plus I though the chapter on Robin Olds was pretty good (for his
personality, if not the accuracy of the facts cited).

I really enjoyed was George Marrett's "Cheating Death," combined with
Byron Hukee's http://skyraider.org/hook/ and Tilford's "The USAF
Search and Rescue in SEA," they make a good trio.

Haven't read those, but I thought Tilford's "Setup: What the Air Force did in
Vietnam and Why" was excellent. Sort of "Clashes," several echelons up.

Guy

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Guy Alcala
confessed the following:

Haven't read those, but I thought Tilford's "Setup: What the Air Force did in
Vietnam and Why" was excellent. Sort of "Clashes," several echelons up.

I enjoyed "Setup" which makes for an interesting study along with Adm
Sharp's "Strategy for Defeat," and Mark Clodfelter's "The Limits of
Air Power."

I gotta admit that I think Clodfelter got it right. I had come to
similar conclusions (based upon my own research) before I read his
book. Heck I read it just a couple years ago and he published it in
1989.

Juvat

On Sat, 22 May 2004 07:46:55 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Robey Price wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Guy Alcala
confessed the following:

I'll take "Going Downtown" over "Thud Ridge".

I've read Thud Ridge at least 6 times, but Going Downtown only once. I
was put off with a minor detail, his description of an RF-101
shootdown in Nov 1964. He sorta kinda has the name right, Bert Walls
(IIRC) is actually Burt Waltz (currently residing near Hickam AFB)
and some of the cavalier attitude (IMO) he attributed to BW is not how
Burt remembers it.

I enjoyed Thud Ridge, primarily because at the time it came out it was
the only available book telling the story of the F-105 air war. I
faulted it for being a bit too heavy on the braggadocio and too
heavily weighted into MiGs that were few and far between. It still
conveyed a sense of the intensity of the mission and the frustrations
that we all felt.

Alas I donated "Going Downtown," to my local library. Guy, unlike you
I buy lots of books, parting with them is almost unthinkable, no
qualms with GD.

I couldn't stand Going Downtown. The whole purpose of the book was an
excuse for Broughton's actions in the Turkestan scandal. Years after
the events he still couldn't acknowledge the impropriety of his
actions and he still wanted to blame someone else for the collapse of
his promising career.

Last year in Las Vegas I had the chance to talk at length with Robin
Olds regarding Turkestan. Robin was commanding the 8th TFW at Ubon at
the time and was airborne nearby during the strafing. He recounted the
specificity of the morning briefing on the location of the ship and
the prohibition against attacking it. When he saw the activity going
on from his location several miles north along the coast, he knew
someone had screwed up big-time.

Olds was tasked to conduct the initial investigation and remains quite
knowledgeable on the events.

I'd be sleeping in the car with the books overflowing the house if I bought
everything I read. I confess to having problems with Broughton's idiosyncratic
spelling in "GD" ('Oerlicon,' indeed), and "Thud Ridge" is better writing, but I
know the story -- I'm after the technical stuff, and "GD" provides more of that
than "TR".

Seems the "technical stuff" of GD is mostly legalistic and the Uniform
Code of Military Justice.

As would I. Gene Basel's "Pak Six" is okay, but less informative in the areas
of interest to me..

I also like Al Lenski's "Magic 100."

Here's the link to Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

You've left out "Alpha Strike Vietnam," a chronological collection by year of
firsthand accounts. Kind of like "Fast Movers," but unlike most such
collections, this one concentrates on the attack pilots flying
A-1/A-4/A-6/A-7, irather than the fighters.

I enjoyed ASV, couldn't finish FM (and yet I liked Sherwood's Korean
effort "Offiecers in flight Suits."). FM suffered the same fate as GD
and now resides in a local library.

I wasn't all that impressed by it either - ISTR that Sherwood lacked aviation
background, which tended to throw jarring notes into the book that would bring me
up[ short. But I got to read the short form of Ed's 105 tour before he wrote
"WTR," plus I though the chapter on Robin Olds was pretty good (for his
personality, if not the accuracy of the facts cited).

John Sherwood is an historian (Official Historian USN is his job
title.) He is an excellent researcher, but not an aviator. Regardless,
Fast Movers is a pretty good compilation of oral history interviews.
He didn't do too badly in recounting the results of my interviews and
could only find one or two minor misstatements.

Robin Olds, however, claims he will rip John's beating heart from his
chest should they ever meet again. Robin seems upset at the
characterization as a hard-drinking, hard-fighting, womanizing,
hell-raiser that Sherwood drew. Actually, it seems spot on to me!

Sherwood's got a new one out, "Afterburner"--more oral history, this
time of USN operations over North Vietnam from Yankee Station. (Not
sure about the title--since most of the USN aircraft didn't have A/B,
e.g. A-4, A-7, A-6, A-1, A-3D.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 07:46:55 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

snip

I'd be sleeping in the car with the books overflowing the house if I bought
everything I read. I confess to having problems with Broughton's idiosyncratic
spelling in "GD" ('Oerlicon,' indeed), and "Thud Ridge" is better writing, but I
know the story -- I'm after the technical stuff, and "GD" provides more of that
than "TR".

Seems the "technical stuff" of GD is mostly legalistic and the Uniform
Code of Military Justice.

snip

Then you must have skipped the chapter discussing "Project Swatrock" in Korea (where he used those 'Oerlicon' rockets on his F-84), as well as
Broughton's opinions on the various Century series fighters, feelings about the Genie (IIRR he spelled it 'Geenie'), etc. That was the stuff that
interested me.

Guy

On Sun, 23 May 2004 06:29:06 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 07:46:55 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

snip

-- I'm after the technical stuff, and "GD" provides more of that
than "TR".

Seems the "technical stuff" of GD is mostly legalistic and the Uniform
Code of Military Justice.

snip

Then you must have skipped the chapter discussing "Project Swatrock" in Korea (where he used those 'Oerlicon' rockets on his F-84), as well as
Broughton's opinions on the various Century series fighters, feelings about the Genie (IIRR he spelled it 'Geenie'), etc. That was the stuff that
interested me.

One of the grad courses I suffered through in my formative years
required reading of a half-dozen works (maybe more,) some book-length,
some journal articles. In each, the task was to determine the author's
"thesis"--the core idea that provided the backbone of the book, and
then to ascertain if the author had provided the logically reasoned
argument to support that thesis.

In "Going Downtown" Broughton's thesis is that he was a victim of the
AF's desire to scapegoat him and destroy his career while he was
simply doing the proper thing as a commander and supporting his
troops. His recounting of his biographical experience is part of the
argument of "what a great guy am I."

The majority of the book deals with his legal travails as the AF holds
him accountable for wilful destruction of the evidence that his troops
violated the ROE. The investigation, the arrest, the detainment at
Clark, etc. are all Jack's bewailing his treatment. "Everyone knows I
was on the fast track to Chief of Staff...."

Bah humbug. It's a poor self-serving attempt to rewrite history. I'm
hoping I can encourage Olds to get his details of the story included
in his book.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Guy Alcala wrote in message ...
Robey Price wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Guy Alcala
confessed the following:
SNIP:

I was half-way through "on Yankee Station" when I realized my jaw was
aching. I discovered I'd been grinding my teeth in subconscious rage
seeing the Navy had gone through the same BS we had experienced at Da
Nang, the same ignorance that had killed several dozens of my squadron
mates (in 9 fighter squadrons). I raised my head and startled my wife
by blurting out "If that SOB MacNamara was here I'd punch him right in
the nose!" BTW, I still feel that way . . .
Walt BJ