300lb (130kg) pilot

Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum useful load of at least 300lb.

You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider. This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed, then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console. Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:16:14 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider.
This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded
weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push
up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed,
then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console.
Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if
you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?

Well put. I'm not particularly strong, but find that if I can put my
hands on the cockpit rim and push myself and the 5kg parachute I'm
wearing straight up high enough to get my legs out from under the panel
over the rim, then getting out is easy.

That works fine for me in my Libelle, the club's SZD Juniors, Puchacz,
ASK-21s and G103, but getting out of a Duo Discus, which has a relatively
higher cockpit rim relative to the seat, is a lot harder.

Bottom line: if you can't do at least ten push-ups you may find you'll
struggle getting out of the cockpit, and later, when you are qualified
and want to buy a glider, you may have problems rigging your new toy:
wings are heavier than you may think.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:16:15 PM UTC+13, son_of_flubber wrote:

Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum useful load of at least 300lb.

You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider. This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed, then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console. Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?

I've never been 300 lb, but I've been 285. And many times done 6 or 8 flights with students in an afternoon. I've never had any problem getting in or out of gliders, whether it be the back seat of the DG1000 or a PW5 or Libelle. And I certainly don't do push-ups!

I wouldn't want to do it under a 2 or 3 G loading, but on the ground? Not a problem.

And for Bill T, the only glider I've even flown where I couldn't get full control deflection was ailerons on the ASK13. I understand that's not uncommon.

Bruce, I've had tall pilots in the 2-33. Their knees are higher, they cannot get full aileron deflection without lifting a foot off the rudder pedal so they can put the stick under their knee. I'm 210# and the back stick will touch the seat belt buckle in the back seat. I can only imagine if the 300# can even sit into the front seat bucket, that the stick cannot be pulled full back.
BillT

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:39:39 PM UTC+13, Bill T wrote:
Bruce, I've had tall pilots in the 2-33. Their knees are higher, they cannot get full aileron deflection without lifting a foot off the rudder pedal so they can put the stick under their knee. I'm 210# and the back stick will touch the seat belt buckle in the back seat. I can only imagine if the 300# can even sit into the front seat bucket, that the stick cannot be pulled full back.
BillT

Perhaps fortunately, I have never had the pleasure of flying, or even being in proximity to, a 2-33. I'm pretty sure there have never been any in this country, and back when I started in gliding everyone was training in either Blanik or Ka7/ASK13, all of which I've flown multiple times over the years. Now virtually everyone is training students in glass (my club has been for over 20 years, Grobs then DGs).

On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:34:01 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

I've never been 300 lb, but I've been 285. ... I've never had any problem getting in or out of gliders, whether it be the back seat of the DG1000 or a PW5 or Libelle.

But the maximum pilot weight for the PW-5 is 242 lbs.. At 285 you'd be 43 pounds over allowable load. I guess that you're not concerned about overloading the glider.

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 7:56:12 AM UTC+13, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:34:01 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

I've never been 300 lb, but I've been 285. ... I've never had any problem getting in or out of gliders, whether it be the back seat of the DG1000 or a PW5 or Libelle.

But the maximum pilot weight for the PW-5 is 242 lbs.. At 285 you'd be 43 pounds over allowable load. I guess that you're not concerned about overloading the glider.

The PW-5 and every other glider listed.

And, no, I'm not concerned about 6.5% more than placarded max gross if I'm not going to do aerobatics or fly along a bumpy ridge line at Vne.

Once you have a pilot's licence, you may do whatever you want (btw, vne is not affected by exceeding masses...).
The problem comes before having the licence - at some point the student pilot needs to go solo, and if he exceeds the max load in the seat, or maximum payload, or CofG range, he needs a really dumb FI to send him off. I for my part have told prospective student pilots in such cases that there is no way.

On the max seat load, the Calif A21S doesn't have any limitations. There is just a maximum load in the cockpit which is in the range 180-200kg. I've flown it with quite massive passengers, and space is not a problem (the controls on the center console are a bit forward).

TW

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:48:20 PM UTC+13, Tango Whisky wrote:
Once you have a pilot's licence, you may do whatever you want (btw, vne is not affected by exceeding masses...).

No, but rough air speed and manoeuvring speed are.

The 242lb/110kg maximum cockpit load started out as the JAR22 airworthiness
requirement for a type certificate. The glider, when it came off the
production line had to ahve a minimum cockpit load, with basic instruments
fitted, of not more than 70kg/154lbs and a maximum of not less than
110kg/242lbs. The manufacturers specification and the type certificate
would specify a maximum weight of non-lifting surfaces and forward and aft
C of G limits. These usually resulted in max and min cockpit loads
comfortably in excess of the requirements. The individual aircraft could
then be weighed and placarded with the actual loads permitted. Some long
time ago the manufacturers got lazy and started placarding all of the
gliders with 70kg min, 110kg max when they left the factory. We used to
re-weigh them when they arrived in the UK and placard the real figures,
usually considerably more generous.

At 01:29 10 March 2015, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 7:56:12 AM UTC+13, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:34:01 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

I've never been 300 lb, but I've been 285. ... I've never had any
problem getting in or out of gliders, whether it be the back seat of the
DG1000 or a PW5 or Libelle.

But the maximum pilot weight for the PW-5 is 242 lbs.. At 285 you'd be
43
pounds over allowable load. I guess that you're not concerned about
overloading the glider.

The PW-5 and every other glider listed.

And, no, I'm not concerned about 6.5% more than placarded max gross if
I'm
not going to do aerobatics or fly along a bumpy ridge line at Vne.