In wave, in blue hole at cloud level, hole closes, in IMC, then what?

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 6:14:03 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
Does anyone know the history of glider cloud flying in the USA? Was it ever allowed under FAR?

Was the prohibition part of the negotiation that allowed the XPNDR exemption for gliders?

If it were allowed, would it play out any differently in the USA than it has in the UK?

Did Lucky Chucker has an AH over Reno? Was he current with IFR? Did he practice IFR in his glider?

If it were allowed under the FARs, I think people would have proper instruments installed and training in motor gliders would be available in the USA.

Installing instruments that you're not allowed to use without declaration of an emergency is a rather odd state of affairs.

IFR in gliders is not 'prohibited' in the USA. Rather than use the word "prohibited" it is more correct to say IFR in gliders is "impractical".

As with any aircraft, a glider must be equipped for the proposed flight and the pilot must have an instrument rating and be current (and competent) on instruments. With that in place, one can legally go into clouds as long as it is with an IFR flight plan.

For IFR in gliders, I've been told by the FAA that a pilot must have an airplane instrument rating plus 3 hours logged under a hood with a CFII in a glider and an endorsement from that CFII.

from a regulatory fashion, i fail to see how airplane/instrument applies to gliders. they are different categories of aircraft.

furthermore, even if airplane/instrument rating did apply to gliders, there are a host of regulatory issues: could only be in Class G (otherwise one would have to file and activate a flight plan and be in 2-way communications with ATC), and the aircraft would have to satisfy 91.205 and be certificated for IFR flight. these are only a few of the regulatory impediments that came immediately to mind.

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 2:44:41 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
For IFR in gliders, I've been told by the FAA that a pilot must have an airplane instrument rating plus 3 hours logged under a hood with a CFII in a glider and an endorsement from that CFII.

FAR 91.205

(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.

(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:


(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in Sec. 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with Sec. 29.1303(g) of this chapter.


(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.

(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.

(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.

(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).

(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 2:44:41 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:

IFR in gliders is not 'prohibited' in the USA. Rather than use the word "prohibited" it is more correct to say IFR in gliders is "impractical".

Putting the FARs aside for a moment, is it otherwise practical to equip/train a glider/pilot to descend through a cloud deck in Class G in a Lee Wave related emergency? That's a much lower bar than unrestricted IFR Cloud Flying.

While I will (yet again) go back to my, "Loosen the belts, then, kiss your butt goodbye and hope for the best" statement, I will add....... know how to file a NASA report.

VFR into IMC (in the US for a non-IFR rated pilot) is a losing case.
Having some instruments and "lucking out" or, "bailing to save your butt" may work, I will hazard a guess and say, "Expect the FAA to want to talk with you...... at a minimum.......".

While it may have been done in the past (in the US) "legally", it's sorta hard to do (legally) in a sailplane today.

Best is to avoid the issue.
Yes, some instruments "may" save you/the sailplane
YES, you will talk to the FAA (especially is something gets broken..... very likely...).