Chukar's own account

Actual, no-**** SPINS have been pretty much designed out of almost all modern gliders

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Not the case at all. All modern gliders will spin, and quite readily. Some of the trainers are hard to spin, but it can be done.

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 3:08:12 PM UTC-5, Nick wrote:
Actual, no-**** SPINS have been pretty much designed out of almost all modern gliders

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Not the case at all. All modern gliders will spin, and quite readily. Some of the trainers are hard to spin, but it can be done.

Let's get our definitions straight. All modern gliders will depart controlled flight, and some will stabilize in a steady spin (airspeed not increasing). But many (most?) of the racing gliders will only be in the spin state (one or both wings stalled, with yaw present) for a short period of time, then will transition to a spiral dive, even with full in-spin controls. During the departure and incipient spin phase, the correct recovery procedure is to reduce angle of attack and stop the yaw - then recover from the dive. However, once transitioned to the spiral dive, the angle of attack is no longer the issue - it's the bank angle that is going to kill you, and that has to be reduced, then the angle of attack increased to recover from the dive (the G helps hold down the speed).

Blindly thinking "stall - spin - full rudder, hesitate, forward stick" can be a killer when all is needed is to release aft pressure on the stick to break the departure, or if speed is increasing, rolling to wings level and PULLING on the stick.

I guess my LS6 isn't a modern glider - it will only depart in landing configuration, and then after less than a turn is in a spiral dive. In thermalling flaps, it may drop a wing, but doesn't enter a stabilized rotation. Of course, there are situations where you can force the glider into a fully stalled configuration (unloaded recovery from a winch launch failure, then trying to turn at too low a speed, for example) that may result in a turn or two of a spin as the glider accelerated out of the stall angle of attack. But at least in my LS6, it's a spiral dive that is the problem, NOT a spin.

Kirk
66

I guess my LS6 isn't a modern glider - it will only depart in landing
configuration, and then after less than a turn is in a spiral dive.

In Chukar's situation - IMC, no useful horizon - both theoretically and in
fact, spiral dive is the killer, alright, pretty much regardless of the glider
one flies. Only a few 'knowledgeably lucky' pilots who retain their wits (e.g.
Kempton Izuno, Bruce Carmichael) won't be needing their parachute Real Soon
Now. Under those conditions, assuming one is in a spiral dive is probably
correct, insofar as trying to initiate 'blind recovery' is concerned...I know
of few gliders that will remain in a spin stably in the absence of continuing
in-spin control (though the 2-32 comes to mind; there may be others but,
arguably, hosing up a stabilized spin recovery in IMC is less likely to
overstress the glider than delaying/hosing up a spiral dive recovery.)

Kinda-sorta related, it's been noted/argued in other threads that fatalities
ensuing from pattern-height departures from controlled flight may in fact be
due to spiral diving into the ground as distinct from spinning into the
ground. My take is - no less so than VFR into IMC - departure from controlled
flight in the landing pattern is Seriously Bad News *regardless* of how long
the initially-dropping wing is stalled. ("Lets see," thinks Joe switched-on
[well except for that inadvertent departure, I mean ] Glider Pilot, "Should
I initiate a stall recovery, or should I wait 'just long enough for this thing
to go spiral on me' and initiate a spiral dive recovery?")

Kids, be safe out there!

Bob W.