Not to sound like an F-22 cheerleader but I thought this was interesting. . .

Well why don't you tell us about all these MSVRs and MSVR guided
missile systems they have?

If I say they are even (much) better than Silent Sentry would be enough for
you?

BTW some of them do not even need multistatics for stealth detection and
tracking,they can turn any stealth or non stealth platform into high flying
lighthouse so that "anybody" could detect them.

Obviously. And just has obviously nobody has them in service.

Obviously you think all black projects should have wings and life support
systems and all of them are made in USA.

o point me to a website that describes this space based, multistatic
radar missile guiding system. Yeah, about what I thought.

Unlike ultra classified ,much publicized,sight-sensitive stealth platforms that
you can see everywhere everyday,some things are still kept behind the
curtain,even 35 years after their first introduction.

Thats the difference between the Showboats and the important assets.

On 27 May 2004 04:43:09 GMT, (Denyav) wrote:

Well why don't you tell us about all these MSVRs and MSVR guided
missile systems they have?

If I say they are even (much) better than Silent Sentry would be enough for
you?

Not by a long shot. You could just as easily say Russia has a Death
Star on the far side of the moon. As the saying goes "talk is cheap".
Give us some sources. Hell I could say the US has time traveling,
mile long, space going battle ships designed and built on planet
Poontang by aliens and it would have all the credibility of what
you've been telling us so far.



BTW some of them do not even need multistatics for stealth detection and
tracking,they can turn any stealth or non stealth platform into high flying
lighthouse so that "anybody" could detect them.

Obviously. And just has obviously nobody has them in service.

Obviously you think all black projects should have wings and life support
systems and all of them are made in USA.

So prove me wrong. Show us any evidence other than your word that any
of these systems are in service or even close to it. Saying "oh it's
top secret" doesn't cut it because if it's so secret how is it YOU
know about it. Share your sources with us.





o point me to a website that describes this space based, multistatic
radar missile guiding system. Yeah, about what I thought.

Unlike ultra classified ,much publicized,sight-sensitive stealth platforms that
you can see everywhere everyday,some things are still kept behind the
curtain,even 35 years after their first introduction.

Like them alien autopsies?





Thats the difference between the Showboats and the important assets.


No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.

No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.


Lets say a seventy years old imported (polite version of stolen) technology
(stealth) defeated by another seventy years old imported technology.

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track stealth
targets?

Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

On 28 May 2004 03:24:16 GMT, (Denyav) wrote:

No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.


Lets say a seventy years old imported (polite version of stolen) technology
(stealth) defeated by another seventy years old imported technology.

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track stealth
targets?

Maybe because they want to demonstrate against something real? You'll
notice they didn't demonstrate it against flying saucers either.






Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.


I think you're missing the point entirely here. Take any fighter in
the world other than the F-22 and you have an aircraft that can be
detected by ANY radar in the world. You don't need to hang your hopes
on some mythical beast that someone might develope into a working
system in twenty or thirty years. You want to talk about "jurassic"
fighters? How 'bout Flankers, Fulcrums and pretty much every other
NON stealth aircraft in the world.






Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

Good thing we're both.

aybe because they want to demonstrate against something real?

If you allowed to hand pick your opponent you win always.

Take any fighter in
the world other than the F-22 and you have an aircraft that can be
detected by ANY radar in the world. You don't need to hang

The proliferation of stealth platforms was the reason why multistatics and
other counter LO systems pop up everywhere now.
I think you are missing my point,my point is that both stealth and counter
stealth technologies were known for more than half century and if push one them
you pull another too.
Classical technological push-pull example.
Before investing zillions of dollars in any military technology you must check
if a technology to counter your technology is already available.

How 'bout Flankers, Fulcrums and pretty much every other
NON stealth aircraft in the world.

They are going to accompany Raptors in Jurassic Park.

Good thing we're both.

Countries that cannot produce their own scientific talent cannot be classified
as Advanced Nations they are only Advanced Countries and as such are easy preys
for the Advanced Nations.

On 28 May 2004 16:29:57 GMT, (Denyav) wrote:

aybe because they want to demonstrate against something real?

If you allowed to hand pick your opponent you win always.

Exactly.





Take any fighter in
the world other than the F-22 and you have an aircraft that can be
detected by ANY radar in the world. You don't need to hang

The proliferation of stealth platforms was the reason why multistatics and
other counter LO systems pop up everywhere now.


Funny. For them being "everywhere" you sure don't seem to be able to
produce any information on them. Oh yeah, they're classified.




I think you are missing my point,my point is that both stealth and counter
stealth technologies were known for more than half century and if push one them
you pull another too.
Classical technological push-pull example.
Before investing zillions of dollars in any military technology you must check
if a technology to counter your technology is already available.

How 'bout Flankers, Fulcrums and pretty much every other
NON stealth aircraft in the world.

They are going to accompany Raptors in Jurassic Park.

Good thing we're both.

Countries that cannot produce their own scientific talent cannot be classified
as Advanced Nations they are only Advanced Countries and as such are easy preys
for the Advanced Nations.

Yeah you're right. The US isn't anywhere near as advanced as the
motherland. Boy I sure wish I didn't live here in the godd ol' U S of
A. I tell ya, I'm really hatin' it here. I wish we were as advanced
as. . .who is it you're talking about? I don't seem to remember.

Funny. For them being "everywhere" you sure don't seem to be able to
produce any information on them. Oh yeah, they're classified.

In some countries the producers of stealth platforms AND counter stealth
systems are the same companies.High profile marketing of anti stealth systems
before completion of projected stealth sales would not be a wise corporate
strategy.eah you're right. The US isn't anywhere near as advanced as the
motherland. Boy I sure wish I didn't live here in the godd ol' U S of
A. I tell ya, I'm really hatin' it here. I wish we were as advanced
as. . .who is it you're talking about? I don't seem to remember.

1300 trillion dollars is the worth of the stolen technology from a certain
western country.(Needless to say US did not pay even a dime for the stolen
technology).
Does it help to refresh your memory?.

Unlike advanced country US ,advanced nations do not need H1b or O visas ,they
produce their own scientific and technological talent,even though their
populations are only a fraction of US population.

Heck,H1b and O visa categories must be expanded to include
Presidents,Politicians and Generals,as the inability of US to produce top notch
individuals is apparently not limited to the scientists.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.


Lets say a seventy years old imported (polite version of stolen)
technology
(stealth) defeated by another seventy years old imported technology.

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not
designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR
campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track
stealth
targets?

Because the existence of "Grey Bears" is still an official secret, so they
can't talk about F-22 vs MiG-29/Su-27 testing.

Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant
backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer
reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years
ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

Should that still be a surprise - after the F/A-18E/F step back?

The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air, after they realized
that the F-22 might otherwise get cancelled, and it could happen they to sit
there with F-22s and Super Horrors and have nothing to tackle all the
Flankers and PAK-FAs any more.

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************

"Tom Cooper" wrote in message
...
"Denyav" wrote in message
...
No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.


Lets say a seventy years old imported (polite version of stolen)
technology
(stealth) defeated by another seventy years old imported technology.

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not
designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR
campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track
stealth
targets?

Because the existence of "Grey Bears" is still an official secret, so they
can't talk about F-22 vs MiG-29/Su-27 testing.

And you would be claiming that these "official secret" adversary aircraft
have "silent sentry"..?


Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant
backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer
reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years
ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

Should that still be a surprise - after the F/A-18E/F step back?

The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air, after they realized
that the F-22 might otherwise get cancelled, and it could happen they to
sit
there with F-22s and Super Horrors and have nothing to tackle all the
Flankers and PAK-FAs any more.

I don't know what is scarier--the thought that you actually think the USN
has joined in this alleged "evil cabal" to save the F/A-22, or the fact that
you are agreeing with a two-ton loon like Denyav in the first place. Would
that be "aviation journalist", or "aviation fantasist"?

Brooks


Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not
designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR
campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track
stealth
targets?

Because the existence of "Grey Bears" is still an official secret, so
they
can't talk about F-22 vs MiG-29/Su-27 testing.

And you would be claiming that these "official secret" adversary aircraft
have "silent sentry"..?

No, just you're running in the front of the car, and so have failed to
understand what that means.

Have you never heard about the Grey Bears as USAF unit?

Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant
backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer
reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years
ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

Should that still be a surprise - after the F/A-18E/F step back?

The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air, after they
realized
that the F-22 might otherwise get cancelled, and it could happen they to
sit
there with F-22s and Super Horrors and have nothing to tackle all the
Flankers and PAK-FAs any more.

I don't know what is scarier--the thought that you actually think the USN
has joined in this alleged "evil cabal" to save the F/A-22, or the fact
that
you are agreeing with a two-ton loon like Denyav in the first place. Would
that be "aviation journalist", or "aviation fantasist"?

Again the same problem as above: that should have meant "F-15" instead of
"F-22", i.e. it was a typo, but you're so fast in attempting to make me look
silly, you don't even notice this.

Well, I certainly do hope you feel better now. In the meantime I'll continue
reading US and other reports about USAF and USN scrambling to pick up in the
air-to-air race, after being bushwacked on other international exercises....

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************