Not to sound like an F-22 cheerleader but I thought this was interesting. . .

"Tom Cooper" wrote in message
...
I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not
designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR
campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track
stealth
targets?

Because the existence of "Grey Bears" is still an official secret, so
they
can't talk about F-22 vs MiG-29/Su-27 testing.

And you would be claiming that these "official secret" adversary
aircraft
have "silent sentry"..?

No, just you're running in the front of the car, and so have failed to
understand what that means.

The statement you were responding to asked, "Why not aganist silent sentry
which is designed to..." and you offered a "Because..." answer. So are you
buying nto this "silent sentry" bit being outfitted onto Russian aircraft
like the Mig-29 and Su-27 or not?


Have you never heard about the Grey Bears as USAF unit?

Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant
backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer
reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years
ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced
Countries.

Should that still be a surprise - after the F/A-18E/F step back?

The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air, after they
realized
that the F-22 might otherwise get cancelled, and it could happen they
to
sit
there with F-22s and Super Horrors and have nothing to tackle all the
Flankers and PAK-FAs any more.

I don't know what is scarier--the thought that you actually think the
USN
has joined in this alleged "evil cabal" to save the F/A-22, or the fact
that
you are agreeing with a two-ton loon like Denyav in the first place.
Would
that be "aviation journalist", or "aviation fantasist"?

Again the same problem as above: that should have meant "F-15" instead of
"F-22", i.e. it was a typo, but you're so fast in attempting to make me
look
silly, you don't even notice this.

You have lumped the USN into the "save the F/A-22" cabal you posited with
your, "The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air..." bit. Pray
tell what the USN's big piece of the F/A-22 fight is?

Brooks


Well, I certainly do hope you feel better now. In the meantime I'll
continue
reading US and other reports about USAF and USN scrambling to pick up in
the
air-to-air race, after being bushwacked on other international
exercises....

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************

And you would be claiming that these "official secret" adversary aircraft
have "silent sentry"..?

Silent Sentry an airborne system? I did not know that.Anyway thats a big chance
for you to become a very rich person.
Just send your airborne silent sentry proposal to Phillips labs,they trying to
develop an airborne (UCAV) for Air Force.
I am sure they will appreciate your help.

Good Luck

On 01 Jun 2004 22:02:28 GMT, (Denyav) wrote:

And you would be claiming that these "official secret" adversary aircraft
have "silent sentry"..?

IIRC Celldar is being fitted/trialled into an aircraft!!!, There you
go a totally passive receiver, aircraft mouinted...

Up to you if you think thats relevent!!

Cheers


Silent Sentry an airborne system? I did not know that.Anyway thats a big chance
for you to become a very rich person.
Just send your airborne silent sentry proposal to Phillips labs,they trying to
develop an airborne (UCAV) for Air Force.
I am sure they will appreciate your help.

Good Luck

John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

Email Address :-
Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me
Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:15:20 GMT, "Tom Cooper" wrote:

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
No, that's the difference between pipedreams and reality.


Lets say a seventy years old imported (polite version of stolen)
technology
(stealth) defeated by another seventy years old imported technology.

I wonder why they demonstrate the abilities of f22 aganist f15 (not
designed to
detect stealth targets) and use demonstration results in their PR
campaign?
Why not aganist silent sentry which is designed to detect and track
stealth
targets?

Because the existence of "Grey Bears" is still an official secret, so they
can't talk about F-22 vs MiG-29/Su-27 testing.

Heck even Germans and Brits knew during WWII that significant
backscatterer
reductions were possible by hard body shaping but forward scatterer
reduction
was not.
Now US is learning hard way what Brits and Germans knew sixty years
ago,after
spending zillions of dollars for a dead end technology.

Thats the difference between advanced Nations and advanced Countries.

Should that still be a surprise - after the F/A-18E/F step back?

The USAF and the USN are just re-inventing air-to-air, after they realized
that the F-22 might otherwise get cancelled, and it could happen they to sit
there with F-22s and Super Horrors and have nothing to tackle all the
Flankers and PAK-FAs any more.

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*********************************************** **

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*********************************************** **

The USAF and the USMC/USN aircraft are, by a large margin, the best
in the world. The rumored "multi-static" radars are vapor ware, and the
"new" Russian aircraft are either simply rumors or prototypes that will
never enter production. The F-22 and F-35 will give the US Military
absolute air dominance.

Sorry that the facts interfere with your anti-US ravings.

Al Minyard

The F-22 and F-35 will give the US Military
absolute air dominance.

Sorry that the facts interfere with your anti-US ravings.

Anti US ?
I guess you are underestimating US capabilities,two of the existing multistatic
systems are "Made in USA".

Apparently you have not much confidence in US capabilities !.

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
news
The USAF and the USMC/USN aircraft are, by a large margin, the best
in the world. The rumored "multi-static" radars are vapor ware, and the
"new" Russian aircraft are either simply rumors or prototypes that will
never enter production. The F-22 and F-35 will give the US Military
absolute air dominance.

Well, what you apparently refuse to see is that there are plenty of
Su-30-clones around _in service_ right now, but that the F-22 and the F-35
are still years away from being available to operational units. But, I guess
this doesn't matter to you.

If you consider that there are over 200 Su-27/30s supported by several AWACS
in Chinese service alone right now, how do you think could the USAF and the
USN help defend Taiwan - just for example - with two squadrons of F-15s (on
Okinawa) and few squadrons of Hornets on the carrier based in Japan?

Sorry that the facts interfere with your anti-US ravings.

Yes, Al,
very good: just continue adding fuel on fire of those that really hate the
USA and consider the Americans for a bunch of ignorant and undereducated
idiots. The Europe is full of such people, and they are all happy when they
can read something like your post here - especially when somebody reacts in
the way you do against people who live in the Europe.

The problem is only that you've found yourself a wrong one - like usually in
such cases: so now there are going to even more of those here who also think
that most Americans can't even read properly... sigh...

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************

"Tom Cooper" wrote

If you consider that there are over 200 Su-27/30s supported by several
AWACS
in Chinese service alone right now, how do you think could the USAF and
the
USN help defend Taiwan - just for example - with two squadrons of F-15s
(on
Okinawa) and few squadrons of Hornets on the carrier based in Japan?

I should think that the 200 or so Taiwanese F-16's and Mirages would want a
part of that.

Pete

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:31:11 GMT, "Tom Cooper" wrote:

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
news
The USAF and the USMC/USN aircraft are, by a large margin, the best
in the world. The rumored "multi-static" radars are vapor ware, and the
"new" Russian aircraft are either simply rumors or prototypes that will
never enter production. The F-22 and F-35 will give the US Military
absolute air dominance.

Well, what you apparently refuse to see is that there are plenty of
Su-30-clones around _in service_ right now, but that the F-22 and the F-35
are still years away from being available to operational units. But, I guess
this doesn't matter to you.

If you consider that there are over 200 Su-27/30s supported by several AWACS
in Chinese service alone right now, how do you think could the USAF and the
USN help defend Taiwan - just for example - with two squadrons of F-15s (on
Okinawa) and few squadrons of Hornets on the carrier based in Japan?

Sorry that the facts interfere with your anti-US ravings.

Yes, Al,
very good: just continue adding fuel on fire of those that really hate the
USA and consider the Americans for a bunch of ignorant and undereducated
idiots. The Europe is full of such people, and they are all happy when they
can read something like your post here - especially when somebody reacts in
the way you do against people who live in the Europe.

The problem is only that you've found yourself a wrong one - like usually in
such cases: so now there are going to even more of those here who also think
that most Americans can't even read properly... sigh...

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

You simply cannot understand that SU-XX, flown by the Chinese, cannot
effectively counter F-15's and Super Bugs. When was the last time that
US built and flown a/c suffered a significant defeat?? The latest Mig
"super planes" did not help Saddam, did they?

And, if you had not noticed, the SU is about as stealthy as a 747.

Al Minyard