Midair Warning

Flying with a transponder in those MOA *is* a good idea,... and yes I'm especially thinking of Sevier MOA complex out towards Ely--pretty busy with F-16s out of Hill AFB, and with good radar coverage. But there are no guarantees anything will save your life. Communicating with the appropriate ATC facility can also help. You can always contact them, find out if there is something happening, decide to stay on frequency or tell them you need to leave the frequency. Newer radios with the ability to guard a second frequency are handy.

On Sunday, 12 July 2015 14:50:42 UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Flying with a transponder in those MOA *is* a good idea,... and yes I'm especially thinking of Sevier MOA complex out towards Ely--pretty busy with F-16s out of Hill AFB, and with good radar coverage. But there are no guarantees anything will save your life. Communicating with the appropriate ATC facility can also help. You can always contact them, find out if there is something happening, decide to stay on frequency or tell them you need to leave the frequency. Newer radios with the ability to guard a second frequency are handy.

The Sevier MOA's, A, B, C and D along with many others and restricted areas north of Ely and W/NW of Nephi are controlled by Clover Center, frequency 134.1 or you can call them at (801) 777-7575 before you fly to get a planned schedule of events

We had daily contact with them while flying out of Nephi late June and early July by telephone, Monday through Friday. Pilots also contacted them while in the air and were told the areas were either hot or cold and if they were hot they were told where and what altitude activity was at.

The folks at Clover center have been very friendly, approachable and are aware of the glider activity in the area. and YES they appreciate it when you have a transponder!

As Hill AFB gets the F35's, starting in September, I have been told we can expect more activity in all MOA's and restricted areas around the Utah and Nevada Test Range (UTTR) controlled by Clover

Ron Gleason

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:54:00 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Sunday, 12 July 2015 14:50:42 UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Flying with a transponder in those MOA *is* a good idea,... and yes I'm especially thinking of Sevier MOA complex out towards Ely--pretty busy with F-16s out of Hill AFB, and with good radar coverage. But there are no guarantees anything will save your life. Communicating with the appropriate ATC facility can also help. You can always contact them, find out if there is something happening, decide to stay on frequency or tell them you need to leave the frequency. Newer radios with the ability to guard a second frequency are handy.

The Sevier MOA's, A, B, C and D along with many others and restricted areas north of Ely and W/NW of Nephi are controlled by Clover Center, frequency 134.1 or you can call them at (801) 777-7575 before you fly to get a planned schedule of events

We had daily contact with them while flying out of Nephi late June and early July by telephone, Monday through Friday. Pilots also contacted them while in the air and were told the areas were either hot or cold and if they were hot they were told where and what altitude activity was at.

The folks at Clover center have been very friendly, approachable and are aware of the glider activity in the area. and YES they appreciate it when you have a transponder!

As Hill AFB gets the F35's, starting in September, I have been told we can expect more activity in all MOA's and restricted areas around the Utah and Nevada Test Range (UTTR) controlled by Clover

Ron Gleason

Fantastic Ron. And great saftey work from the Nephi organizers as we would expect. :-)

The radar coverage is very good in that area, I'm not sure exactly how things are tied in to Clover but there is ASR radar (=high scan rate/approach type radar with SSR/transponder interrogators) sites at Trout Creek and Cedar Mountain area out in that MOA complex.

It is also worth bearing in mind in an emergency that you can contact folks like Clover and even in unclear on your position they may very well be able to find you on SSR even when well out in the boondocks. Use cautiously of course.

I've generally found military related ATC folks very approachable, especially in my case Travis RAPCON in California. Travis are very willing to provide flight following to gliders. It just takes folks a little preparation, learn how to ask for and cancel flight following, check in with a power pilot/instructor to run though this if needed. Travis AFB deal with a lot of their own heavy jet traffic and mixed/GA traffic into/out of the San Francisco Bay Area. A few phone calls helped explain to them how gliders operate and some limitations (and they had some folks on staff who kinda knew it already). In that case they really like gliders with transponders because of the Doppler scatter from power generating windmills really impacts their use of primary radar right where gliders will want to fly thought their airspace. And all those big C-5s flying from Travis are TCAS equipped... so again a very good reason to equip with a transponder if you fly in/near these sort of areas.

The USAF talk about "MACA" Mid Air Collision Avoidance" and RAPCONs and AFBs will have MACA programs, you can usually search their web sites or ask them about their MACA program or get information packets/presentations from them. They'll also often be wiling/wanting to present about MACA to clubs and pilot organizations. e.g. Here is a MACA packet from Hill AFB, don't know why it's on a BLM site, but it's the first one that Google found....

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...Operations.pdf

Folks flying near MOA etc. airspace might want to look out for similar information/talk with those folks.

I once, many years ago now, was flying in a small moa south east of phx on my way from turf to Wilcox. No transponder, no flarm no nothing, watching two A-10s flying and dog fighting looping and rolling ect getting closer and closer and called 66 on the radio asking how to let them know I am here. His answer surprised me but has stuck with me ever since. " Call Alburqurque ctr on 121.5 they can contact them" And although they (alb ctr) didn't ack my transmission within about 30 seconds they A10s disengaged and formed up and flew away toward Davis monthan afb. If I forgot to say thanks Kirk I just did now!

CH

Interesting - and very good info! Logical, but I didn't think of it. I
will should the occasion ever arise in the future.

On a side note, did you spell the center's name according to the Duke of
Alburquerque intentionally or was that a typo?

On 7/12/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
I once, many years ago now, was flying in a small moa south east of phx on my way from turf to Wilcox. No transponder, no flarm no nothing, watching two A-10s flying and dog fighting looping and rolling ect getting closer and closer and called 66 on the radio asking how to let them know I am here. His answer surprised me but has stuck with me ever since. " Call Alburqurque ctr on 121.5 they can contact them" And although they (alb ctr) didn't ack my transmission within about 30 seconds they A10s disengaged and formed up and flew away toward Davis monthan afb. If I forgot to say thanks Kirk I just did now!

CH

--
Dan Marotta

On Sunday, 12 July 2015 17:13:26 UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:54:00 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Sunday, 12 July 2015 14:50:42 UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Flying with a transponder in those MOA *is* a good idea,... and yes I'm especially thinking of Sevier MOA complex out towards Ely--pretty busy with F-16s out of Hill AFB, and with good radar coverage. But there are no guarantees anything will save your life. Communicating with the appropriate ATC facility can also help. You can always contact them, find out if there is something happening, decide to stay on frequency or tell them you need to leave the frequency. Newer radios with the ability to guard a second frequency are handy.

The Sevier MOA's, A, B, C and D along with many others and restricted areas north of Ely and W/NW of Nephi are controlled by Clover Center, frequency 134.1 or you can call them at (801) 777-7575 before you fly to get a planned schedule of events

We had daily contact with them while flying out of Nephi late June and early July by telephone, Monday through Friday. Pilots also contacted them while in the air and were told the areas were either hot or cold and if they were hot they were told where and what altitude activity was at.

The folks at Clover center have been very friendly, approachable and are aware of the glider activity in the area. and YES they appreciate it when you have a transponder!

As Hill AFB gets the F35's, starting in September, I have been told we can expect more activity in all MOA's and restricted areas around the Utah and Nevada Test Range (UTTR) controlled by Clover

Ron Gleason

Fantastic Ron. And great saftey work from the Nephi organizers as we would expect. :-)

The radar coverage is very good in that area, I'm not sure exactly how things are tied in to Clover but there is ASR radar (=high scan rate/approach type radar with SSR/transponder interrogators) sites at Trout Creek and Cedar Mountain area out in that MOA complex.

It is also worth bearing in mind in an emergency that you can contact folks like Clover and even in unclear on your position they may very well be able to find you on SSR even when well out in the boondocks. Use cautiously of course.

I've generally found military related ATC folks very approachable, especially in my case Travis RAPCON in California. Travis are very willing to provide flight following to gliders. It just takes folks a little preparation, learn how to ask for and cancel flight following, check in with a power pilot/instructor to run though this if needed. Travis AFB deal with a lot of their own heavy jet traffic and mixed/GA traffic into/out of the San Francisco Bay Area. A few phone calls helped explain to them how gliders operate and some limitations (and they had some folks on staff who kinda knew it already). In that case they really like gliders with transponders because of the Doppler scatter from power generating windmills really impacts their use of primary radar right where gliders will want to fly thought their airspace. And all those big C-5s flying from Travis are TCAS equipped... so again a very good reason to equip with a transponder if you fly in/near these sort of areas.

The USAF talk about "MACA" Mid Air Collision Avoidance" and RAPCONs and AFBs will have MACA programs, you can usually search their web sites or ask them about their MACA program or get information packets/presentations from them. They'll also often be wiling/wanting to present about MACA to clubs and pilot organizations. e.g. Here is a MACA packet from Hill AFB, don't know why it's on a BLM site, but it's the first one that Google found....

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...Operations.pdf

Folks flying near MOA etc. airspace might want to look out for similar information/talk with those folks.

I attended a MACA session where Clover Control, Hill AFB, SLCTracon and others presented. Struck up a conversation with Clover Center and took it from there.

They understand that we all the right to access air space and work to make it available to John Q public.

Ron Gleason

The local Air National Guard (F-15's) safety officer came and gave a talk to us last fall. It was an excellent back and forth discussion and very illuminating for all parties.
MOA's came up. In a nutshell, they are very willing to tailor the airspace in a MOA around a glider if they know where we are (time, location, direction). They offered to place a "bubble" around our ships, set up a corridor in the MOA, keep above certain altitudes, etc. depending on what we were doing. Granted, this is a bit difficult with gliders, but the main takeaway was that they were very willing to work with us.
I suggest a similar meeting with your local ANG/Military contacts. It was very worthwhile for both parties.
The ANG safety officer also commented that the http://www.seeandavoid.org/ website is a great resource. They keep it current. Please use it.




http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...Operations.pdf

Folks flying near MOA etc. airspace might want to look out for similar information/talk with those folks.

I attended a MACA session where Clover Control, Hill AFB, SLCTracon and others presented. Struck up a conversation with Clover Center and took it from there.

They understand that we all the right to access air space and work to make it available to John Q public.

Ron Gleason