LXNAV S80 Pilot Reports?

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:08:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The artificial horizon is FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot be tumbled. I spent part of yesterday thermalling using just the artificial horizon and it was fairly easy to stay fully coordinated and keep the speed under perfect control.


I don't have the artificial horizon option yet but plan to at some point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for US contests like the other LXNav systems have? The manual wasn't clear on that point.

According to the SSA website, the only AHRS with a lockout approved for US competition use is the Air Avionics (Butterfly). Perhaps the list is out of date?

I saw an S80 for the first time a couple of weeks ago, seems like a nice instrument. With the same capability, it is about the same price as the Butterfly. The most obvious differences to me (I have flown with the Butterfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has a real Flarm screen but lacks the inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical Airmass Movement of the Butterfly. Other capabilities seem similar, if differently implemented. And I guess you don't get an IGC flight recorder as you do in the Butterfly?

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:08:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The artificial horizon is FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot be tumbled. I spent part of yesterday thermalling using just the artificial horizon and it was fairly easy to stay fully coordinated and keep the speed under perfect control.


I don't have the artificial horizon option yet but plan to at some point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for US contests like the other LXNav systems have? The manual wasn't clear on that point.

According to the SSA website, the only AHRS with a lockout approved for US competition use is the Air Avionics (Butterfly). Perhaps the list is out of date?

I saw an S80 for the first time a couple of weeks ago, seems like a nice instrument. With the same capability, it is about the same price as the Butterfly. The most obvious differences to me (I have flown with the Butterfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has a real Flarm screen but lacks the inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical Airmass Movement of the Butterfly. Other capabilities seem similar, if differently implemented. And I guess you don't get an IGC flight recorder as you do in the Butterfly?

Am I missing a sale on Butterfly hardware? From what I can find getting set up with the base level Butterfly vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor, $1,400 for the display and $160 for a data conversion port to connect to an Oudie.

The S80 comes in at just over $1,500 for the whole unit. That's a pretty big price difference. I have to admit to lusting after the Butterfly's instantaneous wind data, but it comes at too steep a price.

I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago and still find it to be a great instrument.

Cheers,
Craig
7Q

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42 PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:08:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The artificial horizon is FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot be tumbled. I spent part of yesterday thermalling using just the artificial horizon and it was fairly easy to stay fully coordinated and keep the speed under perfect control.


I don't have the artificial horizon option yet but plan to at some point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for US contests like the other LXNav systems have? The manual wasn't clear on that point.

According to the SSA website, the only AHRS with a lockout approved for US competition use is the Air Avionics (Butterfly). Perhaps the list is out of date?

I saw an S80 for the first time a couple of weeks ago, seems like a nice instrument. With the same capability, it is about the same price as the Butterfly. The most obvious differences to me (I have flown with the Butterfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has a real Flarm screen but lacks the inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical Airmass Movement of the Butterfly. Other capabilities seem similar, if differently implemented. And I guess you don't get an IGC flight recorder as you do in the Butterfly?

Am I missing a sale on Butterfly hardware? From what I can find getting set up with the base level Butterfly vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor, $1,400 for the display and $160 for a data conversion port to connect to an Oudie.

The S80 comes in at just over $1,500 for the whole unit. That's a pretty big price difference. I have to admit to lusting after the Butterfly's instantaneous wind data, but it comes at too steep a price.

I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago and still find it to be a great instrument.

Cheers,
Craig
7Q

I just saw that the AHRS for the S80 adds over $900 to the price so that makes them closer.

C.

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42 PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:08:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The artificial horizon is FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot be tumbled. I spent part of yesterday thermalling using just the artificial horizon and it was fairly easy to stay fully coordinated and keep the speed under perfect control.


I don't have the artificial horizon option yet but plan to at some point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for US contests like the other LXNav systems have? The manual wasn't clear on that point.

According to the SSA website, the only AHRS with a lockout approved for US competition use is the Air Avionics (Butterfly). Perhaps the list is out of date?

I saw an S80 for the first time a couple of weeks ago, seems like a nice instrument. With the same capability, it is about the same price as the Butterfly. The most obvious differences to me (I have flown with the Butterfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has a real Flarm screen but lacks the inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical Airmass Movement of the Butterfly.. Other capabilities seem similar, if differently implemented. And I guess you don't get an IGC flight recorder as you do in the Butterfly?

Am I missing a sale on Butterfly hardware? From what I can find getting set up with the base level Butterfly vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor, $1,400 for the display and $160 for a data conversion port to connect to an Oudie.

The S80 comes in at just over $1,500 for the whole unit. That's a pretty big price difference. I have to admit to lusting after the Butterfly's instantaneous wind data, but it comes at too steep a price.

I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago and still find it to be a great instrument.

Cheers,
Craig
7Q

I just saw that the AHRS for the S80 adds over $900 to the price so that makes them closer.

C.

Actually to be exact and get approximately the same features.

S80 1520
AHRS 912
Nano 395
Cables 22
Total $2849

AirAvionics
Display S 1399
ISU 1399
Total $2798

They are both fine systems.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

I just completed a flying day with the S80.
I set multiple tasks while flying. It was very easy, even in a bumpy cockpit.
Changing tasks during flight is simple.
A screen pops up as soon as you have final glide to the finish...I like that.
When you finish a task a screen pops up congratulating you for completion...I like that.
The Flarm display is very clear for other Flarm aircraft.
The confusion arises when a non-Flarm, but transponder equiped aircraft comes close because it can't give you a direction for traffic. Big Red circle of dots with an alarm screaming at you and you don't know where to look. At least I was looking.

Happy S80 owner.

For PCAS targets you need to look at a couple of updates to determine if
the target is a threat. On my last flight my MRX PCAS was screaming
"ALERT" but the distance/delta altitude did not add up to a collision
threat, only that another aircraft was within prescribed limits. Six
tenths of a mile and 600' separation is not much of a threat but not
knowing exactly where to look can be nerve wracking. So watch to see if
the distances are closing and how quickly.

I know it's not as good as a vector, but...

On 7/27/2015 7:18 PM, wrote:
I just completed a flying day with the S80.
I set multiple tasks while flying. It was very easy, even in a bumpy cockpit.
Changing tasks during flight is simple.
A screen pops up as soon as you have final glide to the finish...I like that.
When you finish a task a screen pops up congratulating you for completion...I like that.
The Flarm display is very clear for other Flarm aircraft.
The confusion arises when a non-Flarm, but transponder equiped aircraft comes close because it can't give you a direction for traffic. Big Red circle of dots with an alarm screaming at you and you don't know where to look. At least I was looking.

Happy S80 owner.

--
Dan Marotta

It looks like the S80 also needs an
optional $540 compass module to
provide instantaneous wind data –
included in the Butterfly.

That said, it may be easier to position the
LX compass module safely away from
magnetic disturbances than the Butterfly
ISU which also has to connect to
pneumatics and be aligned properly.

Your panel may not be 90° to level flight
attitude. Any vario with 3-axis
accelerometers has to deal with this in
some way. A separate box as in the
Butterfly gives you the option to set up a
properly aligned platform for the
accelerometers.

At 22:56 27 July 2015, Richard wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM
UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42
PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36
PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
2:08:57 PM UTC-4,
w=
rote:
=20
The artificial horizon is
FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot
be=
tumbled. I spent part of yesterday
thermalling using just the artificial
=
horizon and it was fairly easy to stay
fully coordinated and keep the
speed=
under perfect control.
=20
=20
I don't have the artificial horizon
option yet but plan to at some
=
point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for
US contests like the other
LXNav=
systems have? The manual wasn't
clear on that point.
=20
According to the SSA website, the
only AHRS with a lockout approved
f=
or US competition use is the Air Avionics
(Butterfly). Perhaps the list is
=
out of date?
=20
I saw an S80 for the first time a
couple of weeks ago, seems like a
n=
ice instrument. With the same capability,
it is about the same price as
the=
Butterfly. The most obvious differences
to me (I have flown with the
Butte=
rfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has
a real Flarm screen but lacks
the=
inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical
Airmass Movement of the
Butterfly=
.. Other capabilities seem similar, if
differently implemented. And I guess
=
you don't get an IGC flight recorder as
you do in the Butterfly?
=20
Am I missing a sale on Butterfly
hardware? From what I can find
gettin=
g set up with the base level Butterfly
vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor,
=
$1,400 for the display and $160 for a
data conversion port to connect to
an=
Oudie. =20
=20
The S80 comes in at just over $1,500
for the whole unit. That's a
pret=
ty big price difference. I have to admit
to lusting after the Butterfly's
=
instantaneous wind data, but it comes at
too steep a price.
=20
I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago
and still find it to be a great
ins=
trument.
=20
Cheers,
Craig
7Q
=20
I just saw that the AHRS for the S80
adds over $900 to the price so that
=
makes them closer.
=20
C.

Actually to be exact and get
approximately the same features.

S80 1520
AHRS 912
Nano 395
Cables 22
Total $2849

AirAvionics
Display S 1399
ISU 1399
Total $2798

They are both fine systems.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:15:07 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
It looks like the S80 also needs an
optional $540 compass module to
provide instantaneous wind data -
included in the Butterfly.

That said, it may be easier to position the
LX compass module safely away from
magnetic disturbances than the Butterfly
ISU which also has to connect to
pneumatics and be aligned properly.

Your panel may not be 90° to level flight
attitude. Any vario with 3-axis
accelerometers has to deal with this in
some way. A separate box as in the
Butterfly gives you the option to set up a
properly aligned platform for the
accelerometers.

At 22:56 27 July 2015, Richard wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM
UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42
PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36
PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
2:08:57 PM UTC-4,
w=
rote:
=20
The artificial horizon is
FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot
be=
tumbled. I spent part of yesterday
thermalling using just the artificial
=
horizon and it was fairly easy to stay
fully coordinated and keep the
speed=
under perfect control.
=20
=20
I don't have the artificial horizon
option yet but plan to at some
=
point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for
US contests like the other
LXNav=
systems have? The manual wasn't
clear on that point.
=20
According to the SSA website, the
only AHRS with a lockout approved
f=
or US competition use is the Air Avionics
(Butterfly). Perhaps the list is
=
out of date?
=20
I saw an S80 for the first time a
couple of weeks ago, seems like a
n=
ice instrument. With the same capability,
it is about the same price as
the=
Butterfly. The most obvious differences
to me (I have flown with the
Butte=
rfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has
a real Flarm screen but lacks
the=
inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical
Airmass Movement of the
Butterfly=
.. Other capabilities seem similar, if
differently implemented. And I guess
=
you don't get an IGC flight recorder as
you do in the Butterfly?
=20
Am I missing a sale on Butterfly
hardware? From what I can find
gettin=
g set up with the base level Butterfly
vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor,
=
$1,400 for the display and $160 for a
data conversion port to connect to
an=
Oudie. =20
=20
The S80 comes in at just over $1,500
for the whole unit. That's a
pret=
ty big price difference. I have to admit
to lusting after the Butterfly's
=
instantaneous wind data, but it comes at
too steep a price.
=20
I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago
and still find it to be a great
ins=
trument.
=20
Cheers,
Craig
7Q
=20
I just saw that the AHRS for the S80
adds over $900 to the price so that
=
makes them closer.
=20
C.

Actually to be exact and get
approximately the same features.

S80 1520
AHRS 912
Nano 395
Cables 22
Total $2849

AirAvionics
Display S 1399
ISU 1399
Total $2798

They are both fine systems.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com


I believe the compass module may give you more accurate wind, but it will not be quite the same as the Butterfly, which derives instantaneous wind (and VAM) from inertial data. The compass allows the instrument to compare GPS track and heading, this will have errors particularly while circling or on certain headings, and will need a slow filter for accuracy.

The Butterfly also includes very good voice warnings for Flarm, gear, spoilers, etc. It does not have a good visual warning for Flarm, however given the choice I will take the voice warnings all in, hands down.