FLARM in Stealth Mode at US 15M/Standard Nationals - Loved It!

Hmmm...

Not according to the Flarm Dataport Specification 7.03 released on July 30, 2015 that says no target data is put onto the serial port for targets above 2 km in distance. At 17,000' and 110 kts IAS for two head-to-head targets that's a hair over 10 seconds.

9B

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 10:41:24 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Hmmm...

Not according to the Flarm Dataport Specification 7.03 released on July 30, 2015 that says no target data is put onto the serial port for targets above 2 km in distance. At 17,000' and 110 kts IAS for two head-to-head targets that's a hair over 10 seconds.

9B

I don't have that document (is it on the web anywhere?), but it sounds like you are looking at the description of the $PFLAA sentence (traffic data).

-Evan

It's the PRIV command spec for Stealth Mode

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 11:58:09 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
It's the PRIV command spec for Stealth Mode

I was promised a copy of the dataport spec that I still haven't received.

I hope this is a documentation screw up. There's no earthly reason to do it this way.

best,
Evan

On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 6:30:39 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 11:58:09 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
It's the PRIV command spec for Stealth Mode

I was promised a copy of the dataport spec that I still haven't received.

I hope this is a documentation screw up. There's no earthly reason to do it this way.

best,
Evan

Data Spec is on this page

FTD-14 bottom of page.

http://flarm.com/support/manuals-documents/


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 7:41:24 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Hmmm...

Not according to the Flarm Dataport Specification 7.03 released on July 30, 2015 that says no target data is put onto the serial port for targets above 2 km in distance. At 17,000' and 110 kts IAS for two head-to-head targets that's a hair over 10 seconds.

9B

Without the target data on the serial port, you will not get a voice enunciation of that target from your third party device.

True. In Stealth mode you also won't get speed, track and climb rate info and the altitude will be dithered. That makes it hard for your display device to do anything other than 1mi / 1000 ft traffic alerts - which is what LX does with Stealth off anyway.

I'll have to look up whether collision alarms are calculated and passed to the serial port some how for high closing rate threats outside the 2km limit for stealth target blanking. Even if that's teue it's not at all clear that an alarm would come with any traffic display, since no exceptions are mentioned in the spec for blanking this info outside 2km and not every target on a reciprocal heading generates a collision warning sonita possible for converging traffic to get down to 2km and change course towards you. Flarm extrapolates, but it doesn't anticipate maneuvering. My setup is 8-12 km for head-on, so normally I'd pick up a potential threat a lot further out from a visual scan, voice annunciation not withstanding. I think of gliders making a 180 at a turnpoint as a classic scenario. They're invisible, then they're 10+ seconds away and you have an alarm (but maybe not a target on the display until they close within 2km?).

9B

Andy,
Check out FIRMWARE RELEASE NOTES FLARM 6.02 Firmware. As I read it, for any determined threat even outside 2km and +/- 300m vertically you should get an alarm, relative position, relative altitude, climb rate,track and speed but no ID.
XC

On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
True. In Stealth mode you also won't get speed, track and climb rate info and the altitude will be dithered. That makes it hard for your display device to do anything other than 1mi / 1000 ft traffic alerts - which is what LX does with Stealth off anyway.

I'll have to look up whether collision alarms are calculated and passed to the serial port some how for high closing rate threats outside the 2km limit for stealth target blanking. Even if that's teue it's not at all clear that an alarm would come with any traffic display, since no exceptions are mentioned in the spec for blanking this info outside 2km and not every target on a reciprocal heading generates a collision warning sonita possible for converging traffic to get down to 2km and change course towards you. Flarm extrapolates, but it doesn't anticipate maneuvering. My setup is 8-12 km for head-on, so normally I'd pick up a potential threat a lot further out from a visual scan, voice annunciation not withstanding. I think of gliders making a 180 at a turnpoint as a classic scenario. They're invisible, then they're 10+ seconds away and you have an alarm (but maybe not a target on the display until they close within 2km?).

9B

Working to stem the tide of technology seems a bit like tilting at windmills. While mandating Stealth buys a bit more time for the "good old days" (a few years) as 9B has pointed out once ADSB happens it nullifies stealth.

Allowance of other electronics (i.e. smartphone/tablet based) makes stealth just the tip of the iceberg.

Maybe a good use of our intellectual effort is to ponder how to sharply reduce the competitive advantage of Flarm (or visual) leeching.

Perhaps the "latest start time" concept advanced by BB has use here? You can start late and use technology to catch up, but you pay a price for it.

9B's "leach tax" concept may have utility here also.

So I am advocating spending more time thinking about how to change the task to sharply decrease the utility of Flarm leeching rather than just debating stealth/nostealth, which seems to me is a relatively short-term instance of the the overall challenge.

QT

Have we totally given up and agreed that ADS-B will be required in gliders, too?

Also, isn't it possible to have the same stealth technology in glider ADS-B boxes? It seems as though all the logic has been worked out. As this thread started out saying the stealth mode really works well for collision avoidance.

I am not buying the arguments about enhancing situational awareness. These seem to be coming from folks who haven't tried stealth mode or are wanting to use FLARM to enhance/extend their vision and improve their soaring performance by using thermals others have found and cored. Do we want unlimited use of this to be part of contest soaring where we are trying to determine who are our champions?

As FLARM becomes meshed, that is each FLARM unit transmits all the data it receives to all other units in range and so on, each pilot will have the ability to see what is going on in the whole task area. Again, this quickly takes us to a point where contests are about who can gather the most information from others rather than who can best read the sky.

XC