SSA responds to ANPRM

When gliders are required to install Mode-S transponders, will high performance aircraft be required to install TCAS?

Before PowerFlarm I had a couple twin
turboprop airliners sneak up on me at
4000' (well below any proposed
transponder mandatory altitude). I saw
another get cosy with a glider and
towplane at about 1000' AGL.

With PowerFLARM I see ADS-B (airline kit
already) from ten miles or so away - lots
of time to get out of their way if
necessary.

If I fall out of a wave or thermal, I'll find
another one or meet another farmer.

On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 1:21:42 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
When gliders are required to install Mode-S transponders, will high performance aircraft be required to install TCAS?

You likely need to define what you mean by "high-performance", it is probably not what I mean by high-performance (light-jet up to airliners).

Many "high performance" aircraft are required to install TCAS today, and have been for ages (the USA lead that move, in direct response to horrifically fatal airliner-GA light aircraft mid-air collisions, with the FAA pushed there by the NTSB as it is now being done so with this latest ANPRM). e.g. part 121 10-30 seats require TCAS I (and most modern installs are likely to actually be TCAS II), 30 seats require TCAS II. Many other high performance aircraft voluntarily equip with TCAS II, e.g. the entire fleets of many fractional share/lease business jet operators are TCAS II equipped. Many military transport aircraft, e.g. the big USAF C5s that say might be carrying hundreds of troops, are TCAS II equipped.

The high adoption of TCAS II with airliners etc. is one of the leading reasons that makes carriage of transponders so effective near busy airspace, where a midair collision with a glider could kill hundreds of innocent passengers. Somehow warping that reality to require more TCAS adoption before you might want to adopt transponders makes no sense. And leading with that argument may make the glider community look ignorant of current TCAS adoption rates or benefits, or unconcerned about he risks to airliners etc. in high-traffic areas.

Maybe pointing out where *you* fly there is such little airliner and fast-jet etc. traffic that mandatory transponder adoption is an unreasonable cost, money better spent on other saftey etc.

On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 5:32:05 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 1:21:42 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
When gliders are required to install Mode-S transponders, will high performance aircraft be required to install TCAS?

You likely need to define what you mean by "high-performance", it is probably not what I mean by high-performance (light-jet up to airliners).

A high performance aircraft (according to 61.31) is an aircraft with an engine of more than 200 horsepower. I'm mostly concerned with those that fly too fast for practical 'see and avoid' and with pilots who are not aware of gliders.

I get occasional benefit from my Trig TT-21. If more high performance planes had TCAS, I'd get more benefit.

On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 5:10:21 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 5:32:05 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 1:21:42 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
When gliders are required to install Mode-S transponders, will high performance aircraft be required to install TCAS?

You likely need to define what you mean by "high-performance", it is probably not what I mean by high-performance (light-jet up to airliners).

A high performance aircraft (according to 61.31) is an aircraft with an engine of more than 200 horsepower. I'm mostly concerned with those that fly too fast for practical 'see and avoid' and with pilots who are not aware of gliders.

I get occasional benefit from my Trig TT-21. If more high performance planes had TCAS, I'd get more benefit.

Many of those very fast aircraft (light jets on up) are already TCAS equipped. TCAS in 200+ hp singles, forget about it. Low-end TCAS II in GA/light jets is ~$20k+ (Garmin GTS 8000), plus compatible transponder, plus displays, plus install costs, plus STC/approval hassles, which is an amazingly low price for TCAS-II but still expensive if it is possible at all in a particular small GA aircraft.

Mandating TCAS in GA piston aircraft is just never going to happen. Not with much more affordable ADS-B solutions aimed at the low-end GA market, and not with the FAA pushing the hell out of ADS-B. And think carefully if you want to argue a position that AOPA and EAA and other aviation lobby groups would find silly and just offensive. But as more GA aircraft get ADS-B In (and Out) they can at least see you transponder via TIS-B (when in both SSR and ADS-B ground coverage) and ADS-B Out or TABS if they are installed (as I expect will likely end up being mandated for gliders...). Once many GA aircraft are equipped with ADS-B Out it is very compelling for them to also equip with ADS-B In to be able to receive all FAA ADS-B services. Portable dual link ADS-B In receivers are $1k today, add your own tablet display.

While I appreciate those who believe transponders in every aircraft helps safety, I guess they have more spare cash than I and my $18K glider... I also almost never fly above 10K, so it's not urgent, but the requirement would stop me from going to the occasional wave camp, where radio contact with center is required to open the window and they know I'm there.

So while I'm still working and putting kids through college, and mostly flying recreationally on the east coast, I'd hate to have to fork out the Dosh to pay for something that realistically doesn't guarantee anything (see recent F-16 vs C150, both with transponder, plus several other mid airs...), and I only need it for the rare occasion when I travel someplace else for the joy of a new and different flight experience.

Thanks SSA. Not so much to those who want to restrict my enjoyment of soaring...