FLARM in Stealth Mode at US 15M/Standard Nationals - Loved It!

JB,

Thank you for your posting. I truly appreciate your taking the time to do so.

It seems clear that we're taking past one another. Maybe that's because we've never met and don't know each other's personality or background, or maybe because we can't get important clues from intonation or body language on what is actually meant, since text doesn't convey such clues. For example, you say I was argumentative when I was simply asking for a clarification about what I saw as an important inconsistency in your honest answer on leeching, which you posted in a discussion group.

Perhaps one day we'll actually meet and, if you're willing, talk about this important issue face to face. For now, let's agree to disagree and just drop it.

-John, Q3


On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 11:14:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
John/Q3, I gave you an honest (if lengthy) answer about leeching and you chose to be argumentative in your response. Fine. But your intentional misrepresentation of Erik's comment goes further. He said he was done (I know the feeling) so I'll jump in again on this point because a few people might actually believe your distortion of his position.

Erik didn't say he would reject help from FLARM. He said this was the last situation in which he would want to RELY on it: i.e., low, no place to land, few options. And I agree. Without getting into how you would allow yourself to get into that situation in the first place, a "FLARM radar" image of a few gliders circling up ahead is no guarantee of a workable thermal. It's the same way that savvy motorglider pilots talk about never relying on their engine to get them out of trouble. If it works, great. If it doesn't, though, they always have an alternative.

Not having a psychology degree or paranormal powers, I don't have any idea what you're referring to when you say his "strong dislike of FLARM stems from something much deeper than pride." Are you talking some kind of childhood trauma?

I can say that Erik, like me, thinks that FLARM is a very good addition to safety. But he's also said, and I agree, that we should limit its use to safety, not to providing a look ahead that invites certain people (not mentioning names) to blindly follow other pilots without making their own decisions OR to trust technology to bail them out of making bad decisions, as both FLARM and GPS have the potential to do. And yes, before you counter, I know of at least one nearly disastrous outlanding caused by a pilot blindly following his early GPS-enabled flight computer down to pattern height on final glide before, in sudden sink, bothering to look out to see what the landing prospects were (nearly nonexistent).

Misuse of FLARM also begs for another technical arms race of better antennas, ground station repeaters, FLARM cloaking devices, etc. It's soaring, not video games. We've consistently rejected remote thermal finding devices in our rules for a combination of reasons. To me, FLARM in non-stealth mode is on the borderline. I'll go further and say that if we continue to allow the use of FLARM for remote sensing, we're hypocritical if we don't allow the use of IR imaging, cloud-based aggregation of FLARM and SPOT data, and other ways of displaying distant thermals, updrafts, and flight tracks on a screen. And that will make the cost of a FLARM device seem like small change indeed.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:56:54 AM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
JB,

Thank you for your posting. I truly appreciate your taking the time to do so.

It seems clear that we're taking past one another. Maybe that's because we've never met and don't know each other's personality or background, or maybe because we can't get important clues from intonation or body language on what is actually meant, since text doesn't convey such clues. For example, you say I was argumentative when I was simply asking for a clarification about what I saw as an important inconsistency in your honest answer on leeching, which you posted in a discussion group.

Perhaps one day we'll actually meet and, if you're willing, talk about this important issue face to face. For now, let's agree to disagree and just drop it.

-John, Q3

John,

Upon rereading my post, I see that I came across rather harshly. My apologies to you and anyone else I might have offended with my somewhat enthusiastic reply.

I agree your response to my "leeching" riff wasn't argumentative. I guess I reacted that way after the fact because of your subsequent response to Erik Mann's posting where you misunderstood his position and questioned his motives. He's a close friend and is rather busy with some non-soaring stuff right now so I leaped into the fray because I know what that kind of thing does when it happens to me.

Perhaps a better way would have been for you to inquire what other factors he might have considered rather than to just state boldly that his strong dislike of FLARM (which he doesn't have) was motivated by "something much deeper than pride" (a statement I'm still mulling over, wondering what you had in mind). I think Erik stated his position pretty well so I won't repeat it again.

He and I do share an opinion that isn't universal, and that may be at the root of the confusion. Neither one of us warmly welcomes the arrival of technology that reduces the traditional skills that good soaring pilots have. We're very comfortable with technology--both of us work in that field--but there's something about making one's own decisions (beyond whom to follow for the day) that makes soaring attractive. It also makes it more uncertain and frustrating at times, which is why I suspect not everyone takes the same position.

There's lots of room in soaring for all types of enthusiasts. Where we sometimes encounter friction is in the area of contest rules, which is what we're discussing now. I look forward to meeting you so we can improve on the imperfect level of communication offered by USENET discussion groups.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

As a glider pilot who flies XC for fun, whether or not in a competition, I like the idea of a tool to help me have a better flight. If tactical use of Flarm helps me get home I am all for it - and am pretty convinced by this discussion that I need to upgrade my LX9000 Flarm with an external Powerflarm. My tactical use is never going to make me a National Champion - is it really going to change who is Champion?