How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 7:21:35 PM UTC+1, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Reply to all 3 posts.

Sean, how much fun actually flying gliders is doesn't matter that much to the initial "sale" An interested visitor will at most get a 20 minute "sleigh ride" in a glider but spend hours on the ground at the airfield. The thing that makes the "deal" possible is the environment at the gliderport.. Unfortunately, most are fly blown armpits of creation populated by not very friendly people. Guess which one makes the biggest impression?. What to do is obvious.

Yes, participation in all aspects of aviation is shrinking. Our bad press is mostly to blame. From the evening news to stand up comics, people are being frightened away from aviation. All of aviation needs to mount a PR campaign to offset this. We also need to become absolutely militant about reducing accidents. We are far too tolerant of unsafe practices.

Dan, be very careful about overgeneralising. I did an informal survey in shopping malls observing about 1000 young people. My numbers say only about 10% were fiddling with cellphones. That's still a big number but it's not 100%. My impression is they do this when they are bored and have nothing else to do. We can give them something more interesting.

Keep the overall numbers in mind. If 1,000 people walked onto US glider operations seeking flight training our infrastructure would be saturated. We just need to figure out how to find that 1,000 in a population of 310 million.

Bill Daniels

Bill and I talked about this at the Nationals a couple of years ago. There are three related challenges: intake, conversion and churn.

- Intake is the number of people taking an introductory ride, or are ins some way given an initial introduction to the sport.

- Conversion, is the percentage of people who transition to solo, licensed pilot, XC pilot, racing pilot.

- Churn, is the number of people who get all the way through the conversion "funnel", are in the sport for a (short or long) while then drop out.

The balance of these three effects determine the size of the racing pilot pool year by year.

A big chunk of churn is related to demographics and aging of the baby boom, some is related to the pressures of modern life. Retaining an older pilot for a few more years only buys you a few more years, but given the current profile of the pilot community there might be some work to do.

Intake is expensive, especially with a conversion rate like ours, which IIRC, is around 1% of those who are introduced to the sport actually become a licensed pilot, let alone a regular XC or racing pilot. This is partly a time and money issue, but at the higher levels it is one of finding a mentor to bring you along. At the RC meeting last year we hosted a gathering of local XC, OLC and racing pilots. The most profound comments were around the lack of an onramp to racing, to lean the skills by flying (following, really) a better pilot to see how it's done.

Team flying using the radio is allowed at the regional level. For better or worse Flarm following has reduces some of the "where'd you go?" issues associated with flying with someone. It's kind of fun to run around the course with other pilots from time to time. Bruno's hybrid events have seen a higher proportion of pilots flying at least one, but seemingly more that one, of the assigned tasks as a learning experience - and because it allows you to fly with buddies.

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

9B

Improvement at all stages -- intake, conversion & churn, should be improved by participants seeing clear goals ahead that they could achieve. For the most part this is XC flying in a nice ship, but there are other goals people could set themselves.

One observation is that on your side of the pond, you refer to introductory flights as "sleigh rides." I've heard that, by default, the prospective pilot doesn't even get a stick to handle!

If that's true, then no wonder the conversion rate is so low! In the era of high rises and budget commercial airline travel, sitting passively in (an ageing) glider just isn't very appealing to young people.

Give them a "trial flight," get them on the controls, and allow them to see themselves flying a high performance ship in the future.

That seed needs to be planted right from the get-go. Once it is planted, their own enthusiasm will do the rest.

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 3:11:43 PM UTC+3, wrote:
One observation is that on your side of the pond, you refer to introductory flights as "sleigh rides." I've heard that, by default, the prospective pilot doesn't even get a stick to handle!

If that's true, then no wonder the conversion rate is so low! In the era of high rises and budget commercial airline travel, sitting passively in (an ageing) glider just isn't very appealing to young people.

Give them a "trial flight," get them on the controls, and allow them to see themselves flying a high performance ship in the future.

Yeah, that's pretty shocking.

My most popular youtube video (link below) is an intro flight I did a few years ago in the DG1000. The day was not very good (overcast and light wind), but I managed to show a little bit of soaring to at least pretty much maintain altitude, and then gave the student the controls for I guess 15 min or so and just let him play and get a feel for it.

The background was that he'd pretty clearly decided he wanted to fly *something*. He'd been for a trial flight in a Cessna already on the same day, and I tried to sell him on gliders instead.

It must have worked, as he went solo in the DG1000 almost exactly six months later.

That was one of my first flights after getting the instructor ticket. Looking back at it now I can see all kinds of things that I hope I've improved since then! But, all the same, I've had a lot of very positive comments on the video and I hope some of the commenters have been inspired to take a flight themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDZN21xzsRo

Every place I've flown in the USA has offered the stick to the
customer. In my experience the term, "sleigh ride", refers to flights
when there is no lift available. In that case we suggest a different
time or day for the flight. Often the suggestion is accepted but just
as often not. A lot of the people who come for a ride are simply
checking off a box on their bucket list and there's no doubt they won't
be returning. For those who show the spark of enthusiasm, we go far out
of our way to encourage them to return.

In my case, as a prior experienced formation pilot, I was given the
stick from the beginning of the takeoff roll to the end of the rollout.
The hook was deeply set for me and I immediately began taking lessons
culminating in a commercial add-on rating.

On 8/17/2015 6:11 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 7:21:35 PM UTC+1, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Reply to all 3 posts.

Sean, how much fun actually flying gliders is doesn't matter that much to the initial "sale" An interested visitor will at most get a 20 minute "sleigh ride" in a glider but spend hours on the ground at the airfield. The thing that makes the "deal" possible is the environment at the gliderport. Unfortunately, most are fly blown armpits of creation populated by not very friendly people. Guess which one makes the biggest impression?. What to do is obvious.

Yes, participation in all aspects of aviation is shrinking. Our bad press is mostly to blame. From the evening news to stand up comics, people are being frightened away from aviation. All of aviation needs to mount a PR campaign to offset this. We also need to become absolutely militant about reducing accidents. We are far too tolerant of unsafe practices.

Dan, be very careful about overgeneralising. I did an informal survey in shopping malls observing about 1000 young people. My numbers say only about 10% were fiddling with cellphones. That's still a big number but it's not 100%. My impression is they do this when they are bored and have nothing else to do. We can give them something more interesting.

Keep the overall numbers in mind. If 1,000 people walked onto US glider operations seeking flight training our infrastructure would be saturated. We just need to figure out how to find that 1,000 in a population of 310 million.

Bill Daniels
Bill and I talked about this at the Nationals a couple of years ago. There are three related challenges: intake, conversion and churn.

- Intake is the number of people taking an introductory ride, or are ins some way given an initial introduction to the sport.

- Conversion, is the percentage of people who transition to solo, licensed pilot, XC pilot, racing pilot.

- Churn, is the number of people who get all the way through the conversion "funnel", are in the sport for a (short or long) while then drop out.

The balance of these three effects determine the size of the racing pilot pool year by year.

A big chunk of churn is related to demographics and aging of the baby boom, some is related to the pressures of modern life. Retaining an older pilot for a few more years only buys you a few more years, but given the current profile of the pilot community there might be some work to do.

Intake is expensive, especially with a conversion rate like ours, which IIRC, is around 1% of those who are introduced to the sport actually become a licensed pilot, let alone a regular XC or racing pilot. This is partly a time and money issue, but at the higher levels it is one of finding a mentor to bring you along. At the RC meeting last year we hosted a gathering of local XC, OLC and racing pilots. The most profound comments were around the lack of an onramp to racing, to lean the skills by flying (following, really) a better pilot to see how it's done.

Team flying using the radio is allowed at the regional level. For better or worse Flarm following has reduces some of the "where'd you go?" issues associated with flying with someone. It's kind of fun to run around the course with other pilots from time to time. Bruno's hybrid events have seen a higher proportion of pilots flying at least one, but seemingly more that one, of the assigned tasks as a learning experience - and because it allows you to fly with buddies.

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

9B
Improvement at all stages -- intake, conversion & churn, should be improved by participants seeing clear goals ahead that they could achieve. For the most part this is XC flying in a nice ship, but there are other goals people could set themselves.

One observation is that on your side of the pond, you refer to introductory flights as "sleigh rides." I've heard that, by default, the prospective pilot doesn't even get a stick to handle!

If that's true, then no wonder the conversion rate is so low! In the era of high rises and budget commercial airline travel, sitting passively in (an ageing) glider just isn't very appealing to young people.

Give them a "trial flight," get them on the controls, and allow them to see themselves flying a high performance ship in the future.

That seed needs to be planted right from the get-go. Once it is planted, their own enthusiasm will do the rest.


--
Dan Marotta

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 4:28:28 PM UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
Every place I've flown in the USA has offered the stick to the
customer.* In my experience the term, "sleigh ride", refers to
flights when there is no lift available.* In that case we suggest a
different time or day for the flight.

Of course guaranteeing lift is not compatible with taking bookings for a fixed future day and time, so we encourage people to take the 4000 ft tow option to ensure a reasonable flight length.

Anyway it's not a good idea to fight too hard to exploit marginal lift (thermals, certainly) with a 1st timer aboard. Even if it's a thermal day, I'll generally only demonstrate a climb of 200 or 300 ft before exiting the thermal, just to give them a taste.

Of course if it's big fat thermals that work with well under 30 degrees of bank, or even only part of the turn in the thermal, then it's a different matter.

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 7:28:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Every place I've flown in the USA has offered the stick to the
customer.* In my experience the term, "sleigh ride", refers to
flights when there is no lift available.* In that case we suggest a
different time or day for the flight.* Often the suggestion is
accepted but just as often not.* A lot of the people who come for a
ride are simply checking off a box on their bucket list and there's
no doubt they won't be returning.* For those who show the spark of
enthusiasm, we go far out of our way to encourage them to return.



In my case, as a prior experienced formation pilot, I was given the
stick from the beginning of the takeoff roll to the end of the
rollout.* The hook was deeply set for me and I immediately began
taking lessons culminating in a commercial add-on rating.




On 8/17/2015 6:11 AM,
wrote:



On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 7:21:35 PM UTC+1, Andy Blackburn wrote:


On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:


Reply to all 3 posts.

Sean, how much fun actually flying gliders is doesn't matter that much to the initial "sale" An interested visitor will at most get a 20 minute "sleigh ride" in a glider but spend hours on the ground at the airfield. The thing that makes the "deal" possible is the environment at the gliderport. Unfortunately, most are fly blown armpits of creation populated by not very friendly people. Guess which one makes the biggest impression?. What to do is obvious.

Yes, participation in all aspects of aviation is shrinking. Our bad press is mostly to blame. From the evening news to stand up comics, people are being frightened away from aviation. All of aviation needs to mount a PR campaign to offset this. We also need to become absolutely militant about reducing accidents. We are far too tolerant of unsafe practices.

Dan, be very careful about overgeneralising. I did an informal survey in shopping malls observing about 1000 young people. My numbers say only about 10% were fiddling with cellphones. That's still a big number but it's not 100%. My impression is they do this when they are bored and have nothing else to do. We can give them something more interesting.

Keep the overall numbers in mind. If 1,000 people walked onto US glider operations seeking flight training our infrastructure would be saturated. We just need to figure out how to find that 1,000 in a population of 310 million.

Bill Daniels


Bill and I talked about this at the Nationals a couple of years ago. There are three related challenges: intake, conversion and churn.

- Intake is the number of people taking an introductory ride, or are ins some way given an initial introduction to the sport.

- Conversion, is the percentage of people who transition to solo, licensed pilot, XC pilot, racing pilot.

- Churn, is the number of people who get all the way through the conversion "funnel", are in the sport for a (short or long) while then drop out.

The balance of these three effects determine the size of the racing pilot pool year by year.

A big chunk of churn is related to demographics and aging of the baby boom, some is related to the pressures of modern life. Retaining an older pilot for a few more years only buys you a few more years, but given the current profile of the pilot community there might be some work to do.

Intake is expensive, especially with a conversion rate like ours, which IIRC, is around 1% of those who are introduced to the sport actually become a licensed pilot, let alone a regular XC or racing pilot. This is partly a time and money issue, but at the higher levels it is one of finding a mentor to bring you along. At the RC meeting last year we hosted a gathering of local XC, OLC and racing pilots. The most profound comments were around the lack of an onramp to racing, to lean the skills by flying (following, really) a better pilot to see how it's done.

Team flying using the radio is allowed at the regional level. For better or worse Flarm following has reduces some of the "where'd you go?" issues associated with flying with someone. It's kind of fun to run around the course with other pilots from time to time. Bruno's hybrid events have seen a higher proportion of pilots flying at least one, but seemingly more that one, of the assigned tasks as a learning experience - and because it allows you to fly with buddies.

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

9B


Improvement at all stages -- intake, conversion & churn, should be improved by participants seeing clear goals ahead that they could achieve. For the most part this is XC flying in a nice ship, but there are other goals people could set themselves.

One observation is that on your side of the pond, you refer to introductory flights as "sleigh rides." I've heard that, by default, the prospective pilot doesn't even get a stick to handle!

If that's true, then no wonder the conversion rate is so low! In the era of high rises and budget commercial airline travel, sitting passively in (an ageing) glider just isn't very appealing to young people.

Give them a "trial flight," get them on the controls, and allow them to see themselves flying a high performance ship in the future.

That seed needs to be planted right from the get-go. Once it is planted, their own enthusiasm will do the rest.






--

Dan Marotta

The SSA Group Plan does not allow club/chapter scenic passengers to manipulate the controls. Hence the FAST program.

Frank Whiteley

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 10:33:39 PM UTC+3, Frank Whiteley wrote:
The SSA Group Plan does not allow club/chapter scenic passengers to manipulate the controls. Hence the FAST program.

The opposite in New Zealand. Scenic flights are not allowed. If you do not offer use of the controls during the flight then you are in danger of being reclassified as a commercial operation, not a club, and that means a whole other (much more onerous) maintenance and regulatory regime.

Hey Sean,

My club (Aero Club Albatross in Blairstown, NJ) does a great job inspiring pilots to take up cross country soaring. This is due to several reasons.

1) Cross Country flying is encouraged in club equipment.
2) There is an active group of cross country pilots that fly often, which consistently shows what can be done.
3) The social scene encourages people to stick around after landing, which helps in mentoring new folks and almost guaranteeing that someone will retrieve you if you land out.
4) Landouts are treated as an accomplishment, rather than a hassle and a burden.

One of the big reasons that my club is so relaxed about cross country flying in club equipment is due to its two 1-26Es. If you would like to get XC approved, the rules are quite simple. Get your Silver climb and duration in the 1-26 and then you are approved to do a Silver Distance. After completing your silver badge in a 1-26, you are free to fly XC in any glider that you are approved to fly.

This arrangement works out very nicely because the low-time pilots cut their teeth in a glider that is cheap, safe and durable. If they land out, they are unlikely to hurt it and if they do incur some minor damage, it isn't a big deal to the club because at the end of the day, it's still a 1-26. As a result, ACA encourages people to get on out there and fly rather than being reticent about cutting them loose.

Flying cross country in club equipment is a big reason why we retain membership. Our fleet allows people to progress from Schweizers through sleek German glass at low cost. It makes it a lot easier for people to really try out the sport and get hooked rather than being faced with the daunting decision of having to buy a glider before they are really ready to go headfirst into this activity.

I am forever thankful that I am fortunate enough to be a member of such an awesome club and incredible soaring site.

Daniel

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 2:43:38 AM UTC+3, wrote:
One of the big reasons that my club is so relaxed about cross country flying in club equipment is due to its two 1-26Es. If you would like to get XC approved, the rules are quite simple. Get your Silver climb and duration in the 1-26 and then you are approved to do a Silver Distance. After completing your silver badge in a 1-26, you are free to fly XC in any glider that you are approved to fly.

Things work a bit differently at my club.

I'm not aware of any formal requirement to demonstrate soaring ability in order to go cross country. The requirement is to demonstrate ability to make a circuit and short precision landing over an obstacle (fence at least) to a place you haven't previously landed. This could be an unused corner of the airfield, or a nearby field with a friendly farmer (bonus points if it's far enough away in a suitable direction that you might actually need it in anger later). Cross country ratings are given for each glider type -- you might be allowed to take the PW5 cross country, but only fly the DG1000 locally.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 03:04:30 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 2:43:38 AM UTC+3,
wrote:
One of the big reasons that my club is so relaxed about cross country
flying in club equipment is due to its two 1-26Es. If you would like to
get XC approved, the rules are quite simple. Get your Silver climb and
duration in the 1-26 and then you are approved to do a Silver Distance.
After completing your silver badge in a 1-26, you are free to fly XC in
any glider that you are approved to fly.

Things work a bit differently at my club.

I'm not aware of any formal requirement to demonstrate soaring ability
in order to go cross country. The requirement is to demonstrate ability
to make a circuit and short precision landing over an obstacle (fence at
least) to a place you haven't previously landed. This could be an unused
corner of the airfield, or a nearby field with a friendly farmer (bonus
points if it's far enough away in a suitable direction that you might
actually need it in anger later). Cross country ratings are given for
each glider type -- you might be allowed to take the PW5 cross country,
but only fly the DG1000 locally.

In the UK a lot of the preliminaries are covered by the BGA's Bronze
Badge, which as two parts:

Part 1
- 50 solo flights or 20 flights and 10 hours
- two soaring flights of 30mins each off a winch or 60mins from an aero
tow of 2000ft or less
- followed by
- three check flights with an instructor including stall&spin
checks, launch failure recovery
- two demonstrated field landings with altimeter covered.
May be done on the airfield but using a part that isn't a usual
landing area or approach
- a written test on Air Law and General flying
- the lot to be completed within 12 months.

Part 2 (XC endorsement)
- a one hour and a two hour soaring flight
- field selection, field landing and navigation exercises,
usually done in a motor glider.

At my club a new solo pilot converts to the SZD Juniors after 5 solos and
flying checks on the ASK-21 and almost immediately starts working on the
Bronze Badge, which gives them something concrete to aim at after solo.
They are encouraged to start work on their Silver Badge at the same time,
because both Silver height gain and duration can be done without leaving
the home field and, if conditions are suitable, Silver distance can be
attempted as soon as the Bronze XC endorsement has been signed off.

Then they're encouraged to go for the BGA 100km diploma, usually in a
club single seater (we have two Juniors, Pegase 90, Discus and ASW-24).
The 100 km diploma has 2 parts (a) flying the 100 km as a triangle or out
& return and (b) a similar flight with a handicapped speed of 65km/h or
faster. I did both parts in the club Pegase in a single flight on a
really good day: flew a 109km triangle, turned round and went round it
again in the opposite direction. The second time round was fast enough
for part B.

Last but not least, there's the InterClub League, in which the clubs in a
locality fly in a series of weekend competitions, with each club hosting
one of them. Each club enters teams of three:
- pundit (anybody can fly - no experience restrictions)
- intermediate (must not have flown a 500km Diamond distance or a
Nationals level competition)
- novice (must not have flown a 300km Gold task or a rated competition)

It seems to me that the InterClub League format might be something that
would work well in the US scene since it involves relatively small tasks,
lets pilots at various levels compete against each other and gives them
the experience of flying from different fields.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 5:14:20 PM UTC-6, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 10:33:39 PM UTC+3, Frank Whiteley wrote:
The SSA Group Plan does not allow club/chapter scenic passengers to manipulate the controls. Hence the FAST program.

The opposite in New Zealand. Scenic flights are not allowed. If you do not offer use of the controls during the flight then you are in danger of being reclassified as a commercial operation, not a club, and that means a whole other (much more onerous) maintenance and regulatory regime.

Interesting approach. The baseline for insurance here is commercial coverage. Under our SSA Group Plan, a club with 100% SSA members receives a discount, but will have some constraints, e.g., rides okay by current commercial rated pilot (and other FAA compliance such as Type Certificated glider, 100-hour inspections) but membership required to manipulate the controls. There are other insurance options, and other approaches. At least one club requires all members to have renter/non-owner insurance. This also allows members to fly with local commercial operations. This coverage is included under our group plan for private owners up to the insured limits of their hull value. The thinking behind the ride coverage is expectation of performance when the passenger pays for the service and how will the courts find that this expectation is met in case of a claim.

Frank Whiteley