How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

as someone who needs no additional inspiration to become an XC glider pilot (I have Silver Altitude and Silver Distance, and have flown 4.5 and 8.0 with Kempton in his ASH-25), here are the obstacles:

A glider. I either have to buy a glider and only fly out of a local airpot (Blairstown or Wurstburo), since I don't neither have a vehicle that can tow a glider nor do I have the time to tow it anywhere. Or I have to find a club that allows XC flights. I have tried to contact Blairstown numerous times, and nobody answers their email. Wurstboro is only open week-ends, and is therefore less desirable. Lastly, I can continue to rent out of commercial operations, but all of them have been fairly unwilling to let me take a glider out of the local area without substantial time in the area, with the notable except of Soaring NV.

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance, Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three points.

Dual XC flights. For those of you who have single-seat gliders, get current in a mid-performance two-seater and take people on cross-country flights. Kempton took me on two flights last month (see OLC links below), and I learned more in one hour of XC with him than I have from anyone else. You don't have to be a CFI. Any one who is ready for XC should be able to learn just from watching and asking questions.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0...tId=-925876405
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0...tId=-976935827

Contest training. No where have I seen any in-person training on how to actually fly a contest (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist). I would love to see a 1-hour training video that takes me through the entire process, or even a "contest training camp" (maybe the OLC camp?)

I guess this is a pretty good start.

--bob

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 5:49:54 PM UTC-4, Bob Pasker wrote:
as someone who needs no additional inspiration to become an XC glider pilot (I have Silver Altitude and Silver Distance, and have flown 4.5 and 8.0 with Kempton in his ASH-25), here are the obstacles:

A glider. I either have to buy a glider and only fly out of a local airpot (Blairstown or Wurstburo), since I don't neither have a vehicle that can tow a glider nor do I have the time to tow it anywhere. Or I have to find a club that allows XC flights. I have tried to contact Blairstown numerous times, and nobody answers their email. Wurstboro is only open week-ends, and is therefore less desirable. Lastly, I can continue to rent out of commercial operations, but all of them have been fairly unwilling to let me take a glider out of the local area without substantial time in the area, with the notable except of Soaring NV.

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance, Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three points.

Dual XC flights. For those of you who have single-seat gliders, get current in a mid-performance two-seater and take people on cross-country flights.. Kempton took me on two flights last month (see OLC links below), and I learned more in one hour of XC with him than I have from anyone else. You don't have to be a CFI. Any one who is ready for XC should be able to learn just from watching and asking questions.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0...tId=-925876405
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0...tId=-976935827

Contest training. No where have I seen any in-person training on how to actually fly a contest (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist). I would love to see a 1-hour training video that takes me through the entire process, or even a "contest training camp" (maybe the OLC camp?)

I guess this is a pretty good start.

--bob

Blairstown has one of the most active cross country clubs in the US, Aero Club Albatross. They has 1-26's to do XC in. They have a 1-34, an LS-4, and an LS-3. They also base a 1-34 at Wurtsboro which is open weekends an most week days.
I run a "rookie school" at the annual Region 2 contest which involves classroom training and active mentoring. That is done in coordination with the Region 2 "Bus class" contest which is flown using trainer class 2 seaters such as ASK-21's and Grob twins.
Our club members at Valley Soaring Club in Middletown either do their Silver distance by going to Blairstown, commonly in the club 1-26 or 1-34, or by doing a closed course that uses a declared remote start and remote finish.
Lots of people fly XC from sites around an hour from NYC.
UH

ACA people need to answer their email. I am not going to drive 90 minutes to their monthly meeting only to find out that it was moved/cancelled or that everyone is up in yenimsville at a contest.

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 6:54:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Blairstown has one of the most active cross country clubs in the US, Aero Club Albatross. They has 1-26's to do XC in. They have a 1-34, an LS-4, and an LS-3. They also base a 1-34 at Wurtsboro which is open weekends an most week days.
I run a "rookie school" at the annual Region 2 contest which involves classroom training and active mentoring. That is done in coordination with the Region 2 "Bus class" contest which is flown using trainer class 2 seaters such as ASK-21's and Grob twins.
Our club members at Valley Soaring Club in Middletown either do their Silver distance by going to Blairstown, commonly in the club 1-26 or 1-34, or by doing a closed course that uses a declared remote start and remote finish.
Lots of people fly XC from sites around an hour from NYC.
UH

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:49:52 -0700, Bob Pasker wrote:

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up
on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty
suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These
graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance,
Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a
triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of
the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three
points.

Just wanna pick one nit: hope you don't mind. You can't use a 50km closed
course for Silver C because its essentially awarded for a straight flight
of 50km, presumably to get you used to going out of gliding range from
home. Without that restriction you'd get people drawing a roughly
equilateral 50km triangle centred on the home airfield. But that wouldn't
really be an XC at all because its furthest points are barely 12 miles
from home.

Is the 100km diploma recognised in America? If so, just double the
triangle size and you've got a nice sized closed course for a new XC
pilot to tackle after the Silver distance. Besides, 50 km to gold 300 is
a bit of a leap. Even an older glider can do 100 km in 2 hours or less so
changing weather conditions probably isn't an issue, but even a mid-range
toy (Pegase or ASW-20) is going to need 4 - 4.5 hours to do 300 km in the
hands of a relative novice and so dealing with changing conditions, due
to both the time of day and to flying into different parts of the
country, become relevant.

But I agree that having a set of recognised club tasks is a good idea,
and even better if a few of them have a perpetual trophy for the fastest
flight during the year.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:03:25 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:49:52 -0700, Bob Pasker wrote:

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up
on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty
suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These
graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance,
Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a
triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of
the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three
points.

Just wanna pick one nit: hope you don't mind. You can't use a 50km closed
course for Silver C because its essentially awarded for a straight flight
of 50km, presumably to get you used to going out of gliding range from
home. Without that restriction you'd get people drawing a roughly
equilateral 50km triangle centred on the home airfield. But that wouldn't
really be an XC at all because its furthest points are barely 12 miles
from home.

Is the 100km diploma recognised in America? If so, just double the
triangle size and you've got a nice sized closed course for a new XC
pilot to tackle after the Silver distance. Besides, 50 km to gold 300 is
a bit of a leap. Even an older glider can do 100 km in 2 hours or less so
changing weather conditions probably isn't an issue, but even a mid-range
toy (Pegase or ASW-20) is going to need 4 - 4.5 hours to do 300 km in the
hands of a relative novice and so dealing with changing conditions, due
to both the time of day and to flying into different parts of the
country, become relevant.

But I agree that having a set of recognised club tasks is a good idea,
and even better if a few of them have a perpetual trophy for the fastest
flight during the year.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base. Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying modern glass.
UH

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:17:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:03:25 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:49:52 -0700, Bob Pasker wrote:

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up
on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty
suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These
graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance,
Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a
triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of
the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three
points.

Just wanna pick one nit: hope you don't mind. You can't use a 50km closed
course for Silver C because its essentially awarded for a straight flight
of 50km, presumably to get you used to going out of gliding range from
home. Without that restriction you'd get people drawing a roughly
equilateral 50km triangle centred on the home airfield. But that wouldn't
really be an XC at all because its furthest points are barely 12 miles
from home.

Is the 100km diploma recognised in America? If so, just double the
triangle size and you've got a nice sized closed course for a new XC
pilot to tackle after the Silver distance. Besides, 50 km to gold 300 is
a bit of a leap. Even an older glider can do 100 km in 2 hours or less so
changing weather conditions probably isn't an issue, but even a mid-range
toy (Pegase or ASW-20) is going to need 4 - 4.5 hours to do 300 km in the
hands of a relative novice and so dealing with changing conditions, due
to both the time of day and to flying into different parts of the
country, become relevant.

But I agree that having a set of recognised club tasks is a good idea,
and even better if a few of them have a perpetual trophy for the fastest
flight during the year.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base. Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying modern glass.
UH

No change - yet. In the Sporting Code that will become effective 1 Oct 2015:

"a. SILVER DISTANCE A distance flight (as defined in 1.4.2d to 1.4.2h) to a finish or turn point at least 50 km from release or MoP stop."

Look at http://www.fai.org/igc-documents , then Sporting Code, then Next Edition.

The current SC3 allows it; if anyone wants to do it as described above, the time is now (until 30 September).

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

2D

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 7:39:45 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:17:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:03:25 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:49:52 -0700, Bob Pasker wrote:

Graduated training flights. It would be great if the locals would put up
on their website some proposed training flights of increasing difficulty
suited to the terrain and the typical weather of for the area. These
graduated training flights should be structured around Silver Distance,
Gold Distance, and Diamond Goal. For example, for Silver Distance as a
triangle, there could be two practice flights, out and back to each of
the other two points on the triangle, and then the third for all three
points.

Just wanna pick one nit: hope you don't mind. You can't use a 50km closed
course for Silver C because its essentially awarded for a straight flight
of 50km, presumably to get you used to going out of gliding range from
home. Without that restriction you'd get people drawing a roughly
equilateral 50km triangle centred on the home airfield. But that wouldn't
really be an XC at all because its furthest points are barely 12 miles
from home.

Is the 100km diploma recognised in America? If so, just double the
triangle size and you've got a nice sized closed course for a new XC
pilot to tackle after the Silver distance. Besides, 50 km to gold 300 is
a bit of a leap. Even an older glider can do 100 km in 2 hours or less so
changing weather conditions probably isn't an issue, but even a mid-range
toy (Pegase or ASW-20) is going to need 4 - 4.5 hours to do 300 km in the
hands of a relative novice and so dealing with changing conditions, due
to both the time of day and to flying into different parts of the
country, become relevant.

But I agree that having a set of recognised club tasks is a good idea,
and even better if a few of them have a perpetual trophy for the fastest
flight during the year.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base. Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying modern glass.
UH

No change - yet. In the Sporting Code that will become effective 1 Oct 2015:

"a. SILVER DISTANCE A distance flight (as defined in 1.4.2d to 1.4.2h) to a finish or turn point at least 50 km from release or MoP stop."

Look at http://www.fai.org/igc-documents , then Sporting Code, then Next Edition.

The current SC3 allows it; if anyone wants to do it as described above, the time is now (until 30 September).

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

2D

For young pilots we, in the US, do have the Kolstad Century Awards, which can be qualifying flights for the Kolstad College Scholarship, currently $5000. Applications due September 30th.

If you ever needed a reason to mentor a junior pilot to fly cross country, you have one. FAI Silver badges or better also are qualifying flights.

http://www.ssa.org/Youth?show=blog&id=2406

Frank Whiteley

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:39:42 -0700, Dan Daly wrote:

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

Thanks for the clarification. I think its a useful sized task for a
fledging XC pilot, so its something that a club might want to use.

My club has a 109km triangle with easily recognised TPs and a 200km O/R
which both have annually awarded cups. Both are into the prevailing wind
from our field and both are commonly used by early XC pilots.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 7:18:45 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:39:42 -0700, Dan Daly wrote:

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

Thanks for the clarification. I think its a useful sized task for a
fledging XC pilot, so its something that a club might want to use.

My club has a 109km triangle with easily recognised TPs and a 200km O/R
which both have annually awarded cups. Both are into the prevailing wind
from our field and both are commonly used by early XC pilots.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

For a few airports/groups in Eastern PA, North NJ & southern NY, we have:

http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_home.php
Basic rules.... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_rules.php
North flights... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/scorin...scoresheet.xml
South flights.... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/scorin...scoresheet.xml
Flight comments..... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_flights.php .... use the arrow button to see comments from previous days...

This is good, lots of places to land, tend to fly in groups, add's a "bit of competition" between different groups/airports (we fly for individual points as well as group points).

As to "competition training", years ago in our region, we had a "little guys meet". It was divided into "silver" & "gold" based on experience of the pilot & sailplane performance.
It was 2 weekends in a row, had a briefing in the morning, turnpoints, cameras (yes, a long time ago), landing cards, etc., just like a real contest.
The difference was that it was mostly for fun (no national ranking points) but had everything a real contest did.

The other "training" was to crew for a number of contests. You did everything a pilot did (except fly) so you went to meetings/briefs, rigged, loaded cameras, discussed the days potential, gridded, launched, kept tabs on "your pilot", info submittal at the end of the day or retrieves.
This meant you had some exposure to the "contest workings" before having to fly the course.

Yes, I crewed for ~7 years (regionals & nationals) with 2+ contests/year and also flew the "little guys" contest a few times.

One big glaring issue I see in regards to encouraging XC is that a short cross country not a requirement of glider flight training?

If we let students get their "glider rating" by purely flying within gliding range of the airport, we unsurprisingly get a large portion of "rated" glider pilots who never venture outside of gliding range of the airport. This is really no surprise, is it?

"Train how you fight, fight how you train..."

If students (and their instructors), as part of their training, never have to truly think about, plan or execute XC skills we are setting them up for XC failure. More importantly, our CFIGs can happily exists as CFIGs without any skill, experience or desire for cross country flight! You can get a CFIG rating and keep it today without ever having ventured outside of "gliding range" of the airport! In fact, many openly discourage XC flight as irresponsible, etc. The same goes for most FAA glider "examiners(?)." This is incredible to me and frustrating to many of us.

Many (most?) glider "instructors" simply never learn XC skills and therefore never really teach (or meaningfully encourage it). They often don't have a great LOVE for cross country. Many see glider flight only close to the airport as normal and how it "should" be. Obviously, these glider "instructors" are not the greatest "spark-plugs" for preparing new glider pilots to get into the more advanced levels of the sport of soaring (XC). In certain cases they are "allowed" to actively discourage developing cross country skills (that's dangerous, etc). They know who they are.

This broken dynamic is a major problem that we face with soaring today. It is at least part of the reason why we are seeing fewer new pilots joining us on cross country's.

If I was "King" ;-) I would fundamentally change this FAA glider instruction dynamic.

1) Students would have to plan for and complete a short 50km cross country as part of the flight training process. Instructors would have to truly teach this XC skill, and help the student practice it! This short XC would be a required element. The student would not have to do this solo. Waivers for instruction in difficult terrain (why get flight training here?) or poor weather (why get holder training in the winter?) would be allowed, but in general it would be an important highlight of the glider flight training experience (vs something that is just glanced over). Just like the long cross country is a highlight of a private power rating, the XC element of the glider rating would be the most memorable (and inspirational) for the student! If I remember correctly the long cross country (power) is done both with an instructor and solo! Why is this not at least a requirement with the instructor with gliders? Even a 20 km cross country would be better than nothing.

2) CFIGs would need to compete a 100km cross country (with a student or solo) every 2 years to remain current. This would need to be verified like a silver badge with witnesses, etc. Period! No exceptions. You either love the sport of soaring (XC) and are competent at it OR you are not. We need CFIGs to be embasadors for cross country soaring and truly love it. Don't tell me...SHOW ME! Prove it.

3) FAA examiners would also need to have a 100km cross country every 2 years. They need to be able to evaluate the students ability to understand cross country soaring in the oral examination. Without some minimum cross country experience themselves, this is a total pushover.

I'll retreat to my bunker for the fallout this post will create! ;-). But I have to say we need some changes in this area of the sport.

Sean