How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

Some of the replies here are truly uninspiring contrary to the title of this thread.

You are always within gliding distance of some landing spot. There is a true psychological barrier preventing new students from understanding this concept unless you have helped them to overcome this. They think that the home airport is the ONLY landing spot. Yes, some will do cross-country once and then never again. That's OK. At least they will have the experience to properly size up real landing spots along the way.

But many more will be grateful to you in the realization that the anxiety to never leave home base was all in their head. This is where real inspiration is born.

If you don't do this with them in practice, you are doing your students a tremendous disservice. Unfamiliarity is dangerous, and can lead to disaster. There is a reason why student airplane pilots are taught to practice instrument flying for emergencies - because they will eventually encounter VFR flying into IMC. It will save their life.

The same applies to practice cross-country soaring.

At the very least, the glider instructor should fly with the student to an unfamiliar airport and use that as an out landing spot. Or better yet, pick out three unfamiliar airports and do it. Teach them everything they need to do to size up the landing as if it were off-airport, like it is described in the Glider Flying Handbook.

Doing your first out landing alone (even close to your airport) after getting your Private ticket is exactly the wrong time to be experiencing it for the first time.

Cross-country soaring is a thrill, and a challenge. N97MT is right enough,
there is almost always somewhere 'acceptable' to land out and we should (at
some point) show novice pilots how to do that so they don't fear it.

But this misses the elephant in the room. Today its true we are a cash
rich and time poor society. I think most of us just want to go fly and
then go home - we really do not want to land out. Take an afternoon off
work, go fly cross-country for 3 or 4 hours, come home, fantastic. Land
out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic.

With the thread subject in mind.....To make cross-country soaring more
attractive and accessible, to encourage more to just go fly more, and
cross-country, the gamechanger is engines.

Roger H


At 03:02 28 August 2015, N97MT wrote:
Some of the replies here are truly uninspiring contrary to the title of
thi=
s thread.

You are always within gliding distance of some landing spot. There is a
tru=
e psychological barrier preventing new students from understanding this
con=
cept unless you have helped them to overcome this. They think that the
home=
airport is the ONLY landing spot. Yes, some will do cross-country once
and=
then never again. That's OK. At least they will have the experience to
pro=
perly size up real landing spots along the way.

But many more will be grateful to you in the realization that the anxiety
t=
o never leave home base was all in their head. This is where real
inspirati=
on is born.

If you don't do this with them in practice, you are doing your students a
t=
remendous disservice. Unfamiliarity is dangerous, and can lead to
disaster.=
There is a reason why student airplane pilots are taught to practice
instr=
ument flying for emergencies - because they will eventually encounter VFR
f=
lying into IMC. It will save their life.

The same applies to practice cross-country soaring.

At the very least, the glider instructor should fly with the student to
an
=
unfamiliar airport and use that as an out landing spot. Or better yet,
pick=
out three unfamiliar airports and do it. Teach them everything they need
t=
o do to size up the landing as if it were off-airport, like it is
described=
in the Glider Flying Handbook.

Doing your first out landing alone (even close to your airport) after
getti=
ng your Private ticket is exactly the wrong time to be experiencing it
for
=
the first time.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:30:13 AM UTC-4, Roger Hurley wrote:

To make cross-country soaring more
attractive and accessible, to encourage more to just go fly more, and
cross-country, the gamechanger is engines.

In particular FES? FES is a modern encouragement to balance out the modern deterrents. I understand that FES(s) are catching on big time in the UK. I wonder if any of them are club ships? It will be interesting to see how FES changes XC participation in the UK.

I wonder if new pilots will decide that they don't need FES after a few flights, or if they will decide that it is essential.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 8:11:50 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:30:13 AM UTC-4, Roger Hurley wrote:

To make cross-country soaring more
attractive and accessible, to encourage more to just go fly more, and
cross-country, the gamechanger is engines.

In particular FES? FES is a modern encouragement to balance out the modern deterrents. I understand that FES(s) are catching on big time in the UK. I wonder if any of them are club ships? It will be interesting to see how FES changes XC participation in the UK.

I wonder if new pilots will decide that they don't need FES after a few flights, or if they will decide that it is essential.

FES, at this time, is limited to what I would call high end, new single seat aircraft. These are not the machines that new pilots will be flying cross country. It will take a very long time before these ships trickle down to the group of pilots that we have been discussing.
UH

On Friday, 28 August 2015 14:22:59 UTC+2, wrote:
FES, at this time, is limited to what I would call high end, new single seat aircraft. These are not the machines that new pilots will be flying cross country. It will take a very long time before these ships trickle down to the group of pilots that we have been discussing.
UH

I'd love to purchase a FES equipped glider but I'm afraid these gliders are very unlikely to trickle down to the "affordable first ship for new pilots" category since battery packs have a limited lifespan and cost a significant amount of money to replace.
I can't see FES gliders dropping to the $10000 (G102, ASW-15) to $20000 (ASW-20, Ventus B) range any time soon which is the price range most first time owners are willing to pay in my part of the woods.

"Land out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic."

Actually, land outs can be an entirely different adventure! You get to
visit a different airport or field, meet new people, share the
excitement of flying without an engine, etc. You get to have a meal
some place where you might never have gone before. Think of all the
stories you'll have to tell your friends upon your return.

You could also spend the night sleeping in the glider or in a motel in
Hawthorne, NV like someone I know did a few days ago... :-D

On 8/28/2015 1:16 AM, Roger Hurley wrote:
Cross-country soaring is a thrill, and a challenge. N97MT is right enough,
there is almost always somewhere 'acceptable' to land out and we should (at
some point) show novice pilots how to do that so they don't fear it.

But this misses the elephant in the room. Today its true we are a cash
rich and time poor society. I think most of us just want to go fly and
then go home - we really do not want to land out. Take an afternoon off
work, go fly cross-country for 3 or 4 hours, come home, fantastic. Land
out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic.

With the thread subject in mind.....To make cross-country soaring more
attractive and accessible, to encourage more to just go fly more, and
cross-country, the gamechanger is engines.

Roger H


At 03:02 28 August 2015, N97MT wrote:
Some of the replies here are truly uninspiring contrary to the title of
thi=
s thread.

You are always within gliding distance of some landing spot. There is a
tru=
e psychological barrier preventing new students from understanding this
con=
cept unless you have helped them to overcome this. They think that the
home=
airport is the ONLY landing spot. Yes, some will do cross-country once
and=
then never again. That's OK. At least they will have the experience to
pro=
perly size up real landing spots along the way.

But many more will be grateful to you in the realization that the anxiety
t=
o never leave home base was all in their head. This is where real
inspirati=
on is born.

If you don't do this with them in practice, you are doing your students a
t=
remendous disservice. Unfamiliarity is dangerous, and can lead to
disaster.=
There is a reason why student airplane pilots are taught to practice
instr=
ument flying for emergencies - because they will eventually encounter VFR
f=
lying into IMC. It will save their life.

The same applies to practice cross-country soaring.

At the very least, the glider instructor should fly with the student to
an
=
unfamiliar airport and use that as an out landing spot. Or better yet,
pick=
out three unfamiliar airports and do it. Teach them everything they need
t=
o do to size up the landing as if it were off-airport, like it is
described=
in the Glider Flying Handbook.

Doing your first out landing alone (even close to your airport) after
getti=
ng your Private ticket is exactly the wrong time to be experiencing it
for
=
the first time.



--
Dan Marotta

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:20:23 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
"Land out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic."



Actually, land outs can be an entirely different adventure!* You get
to visit a different airport or field, meet new people, share the
excitement of flying without an engine, etc.* You get to have a meal
some place where you might never have gone before.* Think of all the
stories you'll have to tell your friends upon your return.



You could also spend the night sleeping in the glider or in a motel
in Hawthorne, NV like someone I know did a few days ago...* :-D




On 8/28/2015 1:16 AM, Roger Hurley
wrote:



Cross-country soaring is a thrill, and a challenge. N97MT is right enough,
there is almost always somewhere 'acceptable' to land out and we should (at
some point) show novice pilots how to do that so they don't fear it.

But this misses the elephant in the room. Today its true we are a cash
rich and time poor society. I think most of us just want to go fly and
then go home - we really do not want to land out. Take an afternoon off
work, go fly cross-country for 3 or 4 hours, come home, fantastic. Land
out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic.

With the thread subject in mind.....To make cross-country soaring more
attractive and accessible, to encourage more to just go fly more, and
cross-country, the gamechanger is engines.

Roger H


At 03:02 28 August 2015, N97MT wrote:


Some of the replies here are truly uninspiring contrary to the title of
thi=
s thread.

You are always within gliding distance of some landing spot. There is a
tru=
e psychological barrier preventing new students from understanding this
con=
cept unless you have helped them to overcome this. They think that the
home=
airport is the ONLY landing spot. Yes, some will do cross-country once
and=
then never again. That's OK. At least they will have the experience to
pro=
perly size up real landing spots along the way.

But many more will be grateful to you in the realization that the anxiety
t=
o never leave home base was all in their head. This is where real
inspirati=
on is born.

If you don't do this with them in practice, you are doing your students a
t=
remendous disservice. Unfamiliarity is dangerous, and can lead to
disaster.=
There is a reason why student airplane pilots are taught to practice
instr=
ument flying for emergencies - because they will eventually encounter VFR
f=
lying into IMC. It will save their life.

The same applies to practice cross-country soaring.

At the very least, the glider instructor should fly with the student to


an


=
unfamiliar airport and use that as an out landing spot. Or better yet,
pick=
out three unfamiliar airports and do it. Teach them everything they need
t=
o do to size up the landing as if it were off-airport, like it is
described=
in the Glider Flying Handbook.

Doing your first out landing alone (even close to your airport) after
getti=
ng your Private ticket is exactly the wrong time to be experiencing it


for


=
the first time.









--

Dan Marotta

Thanks Dan, so true. I never had a bad experience on a landout, no angry farmer, no unhelpful police. Many good memories of meeting interesting people out in the country who were thrilled to have me as their guest.
Covington VA, ca. 1995, the land owner called the local newspaper, they sent a reporter who expertly interviewed me and took pictures. The land owner takes me aside and exclaims: trust me Herb, WE are going to make the front page tomorrow. He was right and he did send me the article and picture. Wouldn't want to miss that kind of experience.
Next time I'll tell you the story of the farmer's wife who brought us (me and Mike???, flies a Libelle, works at Scaled Composites) a 5 course dinner into the meadow when we were still waiting for our crews at 9 PM in the mountains of Southern Idaho.
Herb

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 10:20:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:20:23 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
"Land out miles away, what follows, not so much fantastic."

Actually, land outs can be an entirely different adventure!

I believe that the 'good old days' of soaring really did happen and that they still do at some popular locations, but the 'little woman' is no longer eager to crew, and there may only be one or two tired (and older) pilots on the ground late in the day.

I'm confident that my club could muster a retrieve, but the XC participation rates have fallen below the threshold that makes land outs routine.

OLC, Badge and Wave camps are another story because there are a large number of pilots present (like in the old days), they are on vacation from their normal evening activities and commitments, and they're looking for a late afternoon/evening adventure. I'm willing (even eager) to help with a retrieve, but the only one that I've ever done was at a wave camp.

So for the foreseeable future, I'll be flying with a zero MacReady. Maybe relocate to a more popular XC location. Maybe FES someday.

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 10:14:28 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

So for the foreseeable future, I'll be flying with a zero MacReady. Maybe relocate to a more popular XC location. Maybe FES someday.

Zero Macready? Really? May I suggest you read up a little more on the theory and practice of Macready settings. Reichman is good, also John Cochrane's articles at http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...ring/index.htm

XC is more a matter of state of mind than of the weather. I've flown 500+ k XCs out west that required almost no skill and were borderline boring, and 100k XCs in the midwest that required all the skill I could summon to complete without ending up in a field. Guess which were more fun...

Kirk
66

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

Zero Macready? Really? May I suggest you read up a little more on the theory and practice of Macready settings. Reichman is good, also John Cochrane's articles at http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...ring/index.htm

I understand that Zero Macready is totally wimpy, not flying XC, but it gives me a good chance of not landing out, and that is my priority. Having lots of fun though.