How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

Jonathan (if that's your real name), it's hard for a long established group to take seriously an unknown newcomer who offers shop-worn advice on one of the most difficult challenges in soaring. UH has not only been talking the talk but walking the walk for decades. You are of course free to express your opinions, but don't complain when your ignorance earns you a rebuke.

-John, Q3

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 11:01:23 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Wow, tough crowd. Even the header asks for ideas "How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring?" So I presented a few ideas and get dis'd for the effort.

Perhaps the poster below does not understand the purpose of an interrogative? And this tread specifically requests ideas.

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 5:12:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:


This group is full of great thinkers, but pretty thin on doers. My impression is that they think we're short of idea guys.
I get to editorialize because I do at least one training event each year.
UH

Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.



On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:35:20 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan (if that's your real name), it's hard for a long established group to take seriously an unknown newcomer who offers shop-worn advice on one of the most difficult challenges in soaring. UH has not only been talking the talk but walking the walk for decades. You are of course free to express your opinions, but don't complain when your ignorance earns you a rebuke.

-John, Q3

Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

Hmmm. I do not believe that everything has been done to improve soaring participation in the USA. In my opinion, clearly, we are focusing on the wrong goals. I would argue that we have been executing a very poor high-level strategy (or perhaps NO STRATEGY). Growing soaring in the USA is, in my opinion, an achievable goal. We MUST achieve it in fact. Stating (basically) that it is not possible is an unfortunate thing to say. I'm truly sorry that you feel this way.

I'm sure that it is frustrating when you have probably been an excellent promoter in the area's that you could affect. To see the national numbers continue to slowly fade is painful for all of us to watch, especially the ones who put a lot effort in locally. I think local, individual efforts are simply not enough. We need national leadership and a coordinated approach (between clubs, regions and the SSA). We need careful attention, and constant care and feeding. We need to become inspired again, and very smart marketing to maintain it. We need a clear, bold strategy that the entire national soaring community is truly invested in and pays attention to.

Again, for example, Great Britain just had roughly 60 (the same attendance as our largest US contests, the Seniors and Perry) in their 2015 Junior National Championship last week. This is an incredible statistic. Britain has 1/6 the USA's population! This should be making our heads explode. It is basically unacceptable. The United States largest contest is a Seniors event. Britains largest contest might be a junior event! Wow! Incredible. How do they do this? We should be studying them like a science book. We should be emulating. When are the US East Coast junior Nationals next year? When are the US West Coast junior Nationals? Where are the junior Contest pilots in the USA Britain's soaring community must compete with all the same leisure activities, smartphones, video games, economic downturns, etc that we do here in the USA. They have the same competition from major sports and their busy lives, etc. Regardless, those excuses do not seem to impact their junior numbers even though they have only 1/6 the population to draw from. Essentially, the US should be able to run junior nationals on 2 coasts and still have roughly 3x the population to draw from in each event when compared to Britain!

The problem with the USA's soaring growth is, plain and simply, us. We have collectively failed, long ago and up until now, to focus on these challenges and address them effectively. Today we are paying the price. In fact, we have essentially stopped trying altogether.

This topic should not contained in a RAS thread. It should be front and center in SSA committee meetings, it should be front and center at the upcoming SSA convention, it should be front and center at the clubs, it should be front and center at the contests, etc.

We need to wake up and open our eyes. We need to organize ourselves and get this addressed and moving in the right direction. We need to build a strategy, set some short and long term goals and manage towards them. We need this challenge to be our TOP PRIORITY at every level.

We need a thriving youth soaring scene in the US or the sport is going to die.

Sean
7T

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 7:51:13 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

Well stated and it is appropriate to be concerned! We have lost two soaring site in the last 13 years in Southern Cal, plus untold number of pilots.

SSA does need to to focus on this matter as a number one priority!

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:58:32 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Hmmm. I do not believe that everything has been done to improve soaring participation in the USA. In my opinion, clearly, we are focusing on the wrong goals. I would argue that we have been executing a very poor high-level strategy (or perhaps NO STRATEGY). Growing soaring in the USA is, in my opinion, an achievable goal. We MUST achieve it in fact. Stating (basically) that it is not possible is an unfortunate thing to say. I'm truly sorry that you feel this way.

I'm sure that it is frustrating when you have probably been an excellent promoter in the area's that you could affect. To see the national numbers continue to slowly fade is painful for all of us to watch, especially the ones who put a lot effort in locally. I think local, individual efforts are simply not enough. We need national leadership and a coordinated approach (between clubs, regions and the SSA). We need careful attention, and constant care and feeding. We need to become inspired again, and very smart marketing to maintain it. We need a clear, bold strategy that the entire national soaring community is truly invested in and pays attention to.

Again, for example, Great Britain just had roughly 60 (the same attendance as our largest US contests, the Seniors and Perry) in their 2015 Junior National Championship last week. This is an incredible statistic. Britain has 1/6 the USA's population! This should be making our heads explode. It is basically unacceptable. The United States largest contest is a Seniors event. Britains largest contest might be a junior event! Wow! Incredible. How do they do this? We should be studying them like a science book. We should be emulating. When are the US East Coast junior Nationals next year? When are the US West Coast junior Nationals? Where are the junior Contest pilots in the USA Britain's soaring community must compete with all the same leisure activities, smartphones, video games, economic downturns, etc that we do here in the USA. They have the same competition from major sports and their busy lives, etc. Regardless, those excuses do not seem to impact their junior numbers even though they have only 1/6 the population to draw from. Essentially, the US should be able to run junior nationals on 2 coasts and still have roughly 3x the population to draw from in each event when compared to Britain!

The problem with the USA's soaring growth is, plain and simply, us. We have collectively failed, long ago and up until now, to focus on these challenges and address them effectively. Today we are paying the price. In fact, we have essentially stopped trying altogether.

This topic should not contained in a RAS thread. It should be front and center in SSA committee meetings, it should be front and center at the upcoming SSA convention, it should be front and center at the clubs, it should be front and center at the contests, etc.

We need to wake up and open our eyes. We need to organize ourselves and get this addressed and moving in the right direction. We need to build a strategy, set some short and long term goals and manage towards them. We need this challenge to be our TOP PRIORITY at every level.

We need a thriving youth soaring scene in the US or the sport is going to die.

Sean
7T

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 7:51:13 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

I don't think soaring needs to grow much. We don't need, and don't have the capacity for lots of pilots. What we need are a handful of obsessed pilots. Obsessed soaring pilots make the wheel go round. Said this before the big recruitment hurdle is cultural, men no longer command their recreational time. Pool to chose from is never married chaps with no girlfriend or kids or old guys with grown kids.

Simple economies of scale. Less pilots, less soaring sites, more regulation, less of a lobby effort before the FAA, fewer companies to supply insurance, repair services, higher insurance costs, fewer tow planes, fewer manufacturers of sailplanes ...in short less of everything we need to go soaring. Yes, we DO need more pilots. Both younger pilots and women as pilots will help grow our sport. I was out of soaring for 13-14 years and was shocked at how much it has contracted in that time. Within a four hour drive the 6 soaring sites are now 3. On a weekend instead of twenty private pilots there are only a hand full. Pilots need camaraderie to stay interested. It is fun to share the time both on the ground and in the air with friends. Not sure how you arrived at your conclusion that soaring does not need to grow much, but you could not be more wrong. There is a maxim "Strength in numbers".



On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 4:47:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I don't think soaring needs to grow much. We don't need, and don't have the capacity for lots of pilots. What we need are a handful of obsessed pilots. Obsessed soaring pilots make the wheel go round. Said this before the big recruitment hurdle is cultural, men no longer command their recreational time. Pool to chose from is never married chaps with no girlfriend or kids or old guys with grown kids.

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 7:47:46 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I don't think soaring needs to grow much. We don't need, and don't have the capacity for lots of pilots. What we need are a handful of obsessed pilots. Obsessed soaring pilots make the wheel go round. Said this before the big recruitment hurdle is cultural, men no longer command their recreational time. Pool to chose from is never married chaps with no girlfriend or kids or old guys with grown kids.

i don't agree with the last two sentences at all. our club has several family guys who take up soaring. a family woman too... and guess what, her KIDS started flying too. so i vehemently disagree. i'm going to get married next year, and i'll have kids too. does that mean i have to quit flying? i dont think so. i recognize that i'm someone who already is engrossed before family and marriage, but my partner in our ASW 20 learned to fly with two kids in highschool, and is happily married. i think your perception of our pool to draw from is incredibly black and white, and inaccurate as well.