The Vietnam Memorial Wall

Ed Rasimus wrote:

snip

"The sidewalk along the brooding black marble wall slopes gradually,
there are no steps along the way. It's almost a metaphor for the
gradualism that led us to failure. It marks the descent into the
immorality of sending men to die for a cause that the nation wants to
ignore. But when you reach the deepest point, the walk rises again and
gradually, over time returns to the level of the street and the city.
All things pass and maybe this represents a return to normalcy and
patriotism and honor; belief in your country's might and the
principles that the other soaring white monuments of Washington
commemorate. Maybe.

Gee, Ed, you can see what you see, but don't you think that making the
Memorial be accessible to those in wheelchairs (i.e. no stairs), undoubtedly
including a considerable number of Vietnam vets who wish to visit it, might
have played a part? I dont remember if the ADA was in effect at the time of
its design and construction, but things were certainly moving that way.

Guy

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 04:17:09 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

snip

"The sidewalk along the brooding black marble wall slopes gradually,
there are no steps along the way. It's almost a metaphor for the
gradualism that led us to failure. It marks the descent into the
immorality of sending men to die for a cause that the nation wants to
ignore. But when you reach the deepest point, the walk rises again and
gradually, over time returns to the level of the street and the city.
All things pass and maybe this represents a return to normalcy and
patriotism and honor; belief in your country's might and the
principles that the other soaring white monuments of Washington
commemorate. Maybe.

Gee, Ed, you can see what you see, but don't you think that making the
Memorial be accessible to those in wheelchairs (i.e. no stairs), undoubtedly
including a considerable number of Vietnam vets who wish to visit it, might
have played a part? I dont remember if the ADA was in effect at the time of
its design and construction, but things were certainly moving that way.

Guy

ADA was in effect at that time. So, we haven't removed the steps at
the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials. We just dedicated the WW II
Memorial which is white and above ground and has steps in several
places. We look up to the USMC Iwo Jima Flag-Raising statue. We stand
face to face on level ground with the Korean War Memorial.

It's a metaphor I'm using. One of those literary thingies.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 04:17:09 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

snip

"The sidewalk along the brooding black marble wall slopes gradually,
there are no steps along the way. It's almost a metaphor for the
gradualism that led us to failure. It marks the descent into the
immorality of sending men to die for a cause that the nation wants to
ignore. But when you reach the deepest point, the walk rises again and
gradually, over time returns to the level of the street and the city.
All things pass and maybe this represents a return to normalcy and
patriotism and honor; belief in your country's might and the
principles that the other soaring white monuments of Washington
commemorate. Maybe.

Gee, Ed, you can see what you see, but don't you think that making the
Memorial be accessible to those in wheelchairs (i.e. no stairs),
undoubtedly
including a considerable number of Vietnam vets who wish to visit it,
might
have played a part? I dont remember if the ADA was in effect at the time
of
its design and construction, but things were certainly moving that way.

Guy

ADA was in effect at that time.

I don't think so, Ed. ADA was enacted in 1990, about eight years after the
Memorial was dedicated. ISTR that the Federal government had its own access
guidelines for new construction in place well before ADA, though; as a young
cadet doing a Cadet Troop Leader Training tour with the Corps of Engineers
construction office at Robbins AFB in 1984, I can recall being somewhat
puzzled by the requirement to make a PAVE PAWS radar facility handicap
accessible and were providing handicap parking spots in front of it as well.

Brooks

So, we haven't removed the steps at
the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials. We just dedicated the WW II
Memorial which is white and above ground and has steps in several
places. We look up to the USMC Iwo Jima Flag-Raising statue. We stand
face to face on level ground with the Korean War Memorial.

It's a metaphor I'm using. One of those literary thingies.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 04:17:09 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Gee, Ed, you can see what you see, but don't you think that making the
Memorial be accessible to those in wheelchairs (i.e. no stairs), undoubtedly
including a considerable number of Vietnam vets who wish to visit it, might
have played a part? I dont remember if the ADA was in effect at the time of
its design and construction, but things were certainly moving that way.

It is wheelchair accessible. The grades are less than 1:12, per
international standards. There are no steps anywhere.

Ken and I were first there years ago, not long after it opened, and we
had no difficulty getting him everywhere at the monument. It hasn't
changed in the ensuing years.

By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

I was puzzled by the references to the tattered directory, here and in
a video about the Wall. Both times I've visited it (most recently in
January), it struck me as pristine. Apparently I've struck it just
after it was replaced.

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe. I don't think this is entirely because I knew
some of the men whose names are engraved on it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:46:26 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:


By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

I was puzzled by the references to the tattered directory, here and in
a video about the Wall. Both times I've visited it (most recently in
January), it struck me as pristine. Apparently I've struck it just
after it was replaced.

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe. I don't think this is entirely because I knew
some of the men whose names are engraved on it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

YMMV. When I was there, the paper directory was dog-earred and
tattered. The unpainted plywood easel was distinctly makeshift and
seemed out of place. It looked like an afterthought and was definitely
"least cost provider."

Why can't there be an electronic kiosk? Touchscreen, alphabetical
query, returns graphic display showing location and panel
number...This isn't rocket science.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus writes:


YMMV. When I was there, the paper directory was dog-earred and
tattered. The unpainted plywood easel was distinctly makeshift and
seemed out of place. It looked like an afterthought and was definitely
"least cost provider."

Why can't there be an electronic kiosk? Touchscreen, alphabetical
query, returns graphic display showing location and panel
number...This isn't rocket science.

The Wall is not Rocket Science, either. Many, including me, feel it
is a statement to simplicity; something lacking in the war itself.

I can not imagine anything more jarring and out of place there than
a ...touchscreen.. display. After all, the war itself proved that
technology can't solve every problem.

I don't recall if the directory was originally furnished by the
NPS, or the volunteers. Now, as I recall, there are multiple
err podiums with the list protected by a glass shield.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

I don't recall if the directory was originally furnished by the
NPS, or the volunteers. Now, as I recall, there are multiple
err podiums with the list protected by a glass shield.

I don't remember, either. I doubt Maya Lin came up with that solution.
(Maybe she didn't realize there was a problem! She was thinking of the
Wall as something to do with the country, whereas individuals who go
there are often thinking of it as having to do with other individuals,
whose names they know. This will of course be less true as time goes
on. If I went to Normandy, I wouldn't be looking for the grave marker
of any one person.)

I recall only the one directory, on the opposite side from the
statues. (Personally, I find the directory--paper or electronic--less
jarring than the statues, which really don't belong there. I'm with
Lin on that one.)

Her notion of arranging the names by date is actually a very powerful
one, especially to people like me who were in Vietnam (as a civilian,
in my case) early. By happenstance, I recognized the name of a
helicopter gunner, Ted Winowitz, whose name was at eye level where I
stopped, knowing that this was approximately 1964. (He was declared
dead in December, though the helo went down in June.) Looking at the
names above his was a very significant experience, knowing that very
likely I'd run across some others there but didn't know their names.

Incidentally, at least one name is out of order. The first American
serviceman now recognized to have been killed in Vietnam was Capt
Harry Cramer, a Green Beret, in October 1957.
www.warbirdforum.com/vanguard.htm

As the first, there was no room for him, so he had to be tucked in
where there was a blank, which was done in 1987.
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

As far as the notion of electronic directories...

I had the occasion to visit my Uncles grave for the first time since
his burial. At Saratoga National they have an interactive terminal at
the welcome center. One can locate the gravesite by name, and other
ways, and then print a map of the cemetary. It made finding his site
very easy. It is also necessary as they are doing a very brisk
business with WWII vets passing away at a rate over 1,000 per day and
keeping up on paper would be impossible.

An electronic directory would be a plus at any of our monuments.

Just my 5 cents worth.

Jim

From: Cub Driver

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe.

Quite a contrast with the new WW2 memorial which I visited recently. It did
nothing for me at all. Funny thing is, for years I thought there _was_ a WW2
memorial in DC. I was thinking of the Marines raising the flag statue, which
says all that needs to be said about that war. Sometimes less _is_ more.


Chris Mark