General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Vaughn"
Date: 5/31/04 6:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

This from the guy who thinks we went to Iraq to fight
terrorists?


Informed people understand we're fighting terrorists in Iraq.

I will concede that we may actually be fighting a few terrorists in
Iraq
now, but they are likely foreign "true believers" who have gravitated to
Iraq
because our guys are there (and have perhaps by now managed some local
recruiting). There was very little documented international terrorism
activity
in Iraq before we invaded, certainly less than in certain other Arab
countries.
Don't forget; Iraq was a comparatively secular society. We have now
thrown
open
the gates for the religious crazies to come in to Iraq and do their work.

I still haven't figured out what Iraq is all about, but it wasn't
9-11
and
it has little or nothing to do with terrorism. Perhaps it was supposed
to
have
something to do with assuring Bush's second term (thus "mission
accomplished"),
but today it seems more likely to have the opposite effect.

Vaughn


Lrt's review the bidding. All the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. So we
invaded
Iraq. Makes sense to me. (sheesh)

Then why were you one of the louder "Yeah, let's do it!" and "Screw the
French for not supporting us" types a year ago?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 6/1/04 1:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Vaughn"
Date: 5/31/04 6:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

This from the guy who thinks we went to Iraq to fight
terrorists?


Informed people understand we're fighting terrorists in Iraq.

I will concede that we may actually be fighting a few terrorists in
Iraq
now, but they are likely foreign "true believers" who have gravitated to
Iraq
because our guys are there (and have perhaps by now managed some local
recruiting). There was very little documented international terrorism
activity
in Iraq before we invaded, certainly less than in certain other Arab
countries.
Don't forget; Iraq was a comparatively secular society. We have now
thrown
open
the gates for the religious crazies to come in to Iraq and do their work.

I still haven't figured out what Iraq is all about, but it wasn't
9-11
and
it has little or nothing to do with terrorism. Perhaps it was supposed
to
have
something to do with assuring Bush's second term (thus "mission
accomplished"),
but today it seems more likely to have the opposite effect.

Vaughn


Lrt's review the bidding. All the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. So we
invaded
Iraq. Makes sense to me. (sheesh)

Then why were you one of the louder "Yeah, let's do it!" and "Screw the
French for not supporting us" types a year ago?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed that
bum and his neocon liars..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Then why were you one of the louder "Yeah, let's do it!" and "Screw the
French for not supporting us" types a year ago?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed
that
bum and his neocon liars..


A lot of people, including me, supported the war but we were played for fools.

I was watching "Meet the Press" @ six weeks ago and Tim Russert asked Bremer to
whom were we turning over control on 30 June.

Bremer's answer:

"That's a good question, Tim."

Five thousand casualties, and that's the answer?

I don't need a general to tell me that the Busihes screwed up.

Art, you were damned lucky to go to war under a great president like FDR.

Walt

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: (WalterM140)
Date: 6/1/04 4:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Then why were you one of the louder "Yeah, let's do it!" and "Screw the
French for not supporting us" types a year ago?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed
that
bum and his neocon liars..


A lot of people, including me, supported the war but we were played for
fools.

I was watching "Meet the Press" @ six weeks ago and Tim Russert asked Bremer
to
whom were we turning over control on 30 June.

Bremer's answer:

"That's a good question, Tim."

Five thousand casualties, and that's the answer?

I don't need a general to tell me that the Busihes screwed up.

Art, you were damned lucky to go to war under a great president like FDR.

Walt


I was damn lucky to go to war in a war we all believed in with all our hearts.
This is a war nobody believes in any more. And the liar has been exposed for
what he is. He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

This is a war nobody believes in any more.


This war is universally supported by informed, intelligent people.



And the liar has been exposed for what he is.


You're referring to Bush, of course. Nobody has identified any Bush
statement about the war to be a lie.



He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.


Bush served in the military voluntarily.

This is a war nobody believes in any more.


This war is universally supported by informed, intelligent people.



Consider this -- Anthony Cordesman writing in today's NY Times::

"It is all very well to talk about a global war on terrorism. To win it,
however, you have to fight it — on every front. We know that by the time of
the 9/11 attacks, some 70,000 to 100,000 young men had been through some form
of Islamist training camp, and that Al Qaeda had affiliates or some kind of tie
to movements in more than 60 countries. In the years that have followed, the
United States defeated the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but failed to
capture many of the leaders or secure the country, and has not completed the
nation-building that could bring true victory. The dispersal of terrorists has
destabilized western Pakistan, and the resulting political struggle has
strengthened Islamists in the rest of the country and created a new regional
threat.

Yet instead of wrapping up that fight, Washington invaded Iraq. While getting
rid of Saddam Hussein was wonderful for the Iraqi people, there is still no
evidence that Iraq was ever a center of terrorism or had strong ties to
Islamist extremists. As in Afghanistan, we failed to secure the country after
our military success and have been far to slow to create a meaningful plan for
nation-building. There is daily, violent evidence that the American invasion
has bred a mix of Iraqi Islamists and foreign volunteers that is a growing
threat.

The International Institute of Strategic Studies in London has estimates that
Al Qaeda and its affiliates now have a strength of 18,000 men, many joining the
movement as a result of the Afghan and Iraq conflicts. Some American
intelligence experts on Iraq feel that the number of insurgents may still be
growing faster than Coalition Provision Authority's military operations can
reduce them."

We are -less- safe now, because of Bush.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

We are -less- safe now, because of Bush.


This issue is beyond your ability to understand.

On 01 Jun 2004 14:29:39 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


I was damn lucky to go to war in a war we all believed in with all our hearts.
This is a war nobody believes in any more. And the liar has been exposed for
what he is. He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.

Arthur Kramer

There are some veterans, educated, and knowledgeable folks who clearly
understand the necessity for this war and the goals that need to be
achieved to develop a sustainable peace in the Middle East and
security in the homeland. You can't generalize your opinion and apply
it wholesale to the world.

What lies? Sarin found last week. Al-Qaeda involved in the beheading
of Nick Berg. Turn-over to the Iraqi provisional goverment by the end
of this month....

As for the willingness to die for the nation, I've got to support a
guy who chose to spend four and a half years becoming an AF pilot and
qualifying operationally in a single-seat, single-engine jet. You may
recall, Art, that tactical aircraft can kill you quite easily on any
given day. Lemme see, four years in jets or four months in
rowboats.....



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

As for the willingness to die for the nation, I've got to support a
guy who chose to spend four and a half years becoming an AF pilot and
qualifying operationally in a single-seat, single-engine jet. You may
recall, Art, that tactical aircraft can kill you quite easily on any
given day. Lemme see, four years in jets or four months in
rowboats.....


Well, his Navy service was more than just those four months he spent on
river boats. But it was four months of a twelve month tour. Why didn't he
complete that tour? The Kerry campaign likes to point out that Kerry
volunteered for Vietnam duty, and that he was awarded three Purple Hearts
while performing that duty. He used those medals, which were awarded under
rather dubious circumstances, to cut short his tour. Why volunteer for
something you don't intend to complete?

Kerry states he was proud to serve in Vietnam every chance he gets. In his
1971 testimony before Congress he stated he committed war crimes in Vietnam.
He gave a short list of atrocities he and others committed. Just what is he
proud of?

If the media had examined Kerry's Vietnam era military service the same way
they examined Bush's, the Democrats would have dropped Vietnam as a campaign
issue months ago.

If the media had examined Kerry's Vietnam era military service the same way
they examined Bush's, the Democrats would have dropped Vietnam as a campaign
issue months ago.


Bush was AWOL for eight months.

Walt