Auto-Towing - why is this not more popular?

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 12:57:33 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
I had an interesting conversation with a pal about auto-tow glider launching method recently. It seems academic really.

When cost is considered, auto-towing has to be far more affordable than even winching. Maybe $1.50 per tow, max? In aviation, the cost is always critical. Especially in gliding club environments. Aerotows are $30-50 per tow. Winches are extremely expensive to purchase, to maintain, and insure and require skilled operators.

Auto-tow procedure seems fairly simple. 1) Steady strong acceleration until the glider comes airborne, then 2) add 5mph and 3) hold that speed until you hear differently from the pilot. Of course, 4) stop at the end of the runway :-).

Why is auto-towing not a mainstream method of getting gliders airborne?

I saw auto-towing happen regularly at Hobbs this year (my first visit). It was quite graceful and almost exotic. To be honest, it looks even more fun than winching.

I am very interested in learning what you know, your thoughts and your opinions.

Sean
7T

It's only as economical as your space and labor happens to be. Ideal for a dry lake. Hobbs is sort of a paved dry lake :-).

When I was a student pilot, we did 2-33 "cat shots" off Harris Hill with two old tow ropes spliced together, later with a proper 400' cable, into gentle late afternoon ridge lift, all powered by an old 307 Chevelle with questionable brakes (thanks Dave!). A total gas, never to be forgotten. Driving the car (which I did a lot) was even more exciting than flying the glider.. The brow of the hill slopes off in a fashion that makes the nerves a little uneasy... especially with those rusty four wheel drum brakes.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 8:30:06 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:

When I was a student pilot, we did 2-33 "cat shots" off Harris Hill with two old tow ropes spliced together, later with a proper 400' cable, into gentle late afternoon ridge lift, all powered by an old 307 Chevelle with questionable brakes (thanks Dave!). A total gas, never to be forgotten. Driving the car (which I did a lot) was even more exciting than flying the glider. The brow of the hill slopes off in a fashion that makes the nerves a little uneasy... especially with those rusty four wheel drum brakes.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

That reminded me. The far end of our runway had a steep dropoff into a corn field. On one tow, as I eased off the gas and got on the brakes... there weren't any. Or not much. Went all Dukes of Hazard and luckily landed safely on the downslope, ending up with the hood in the corn. Funny now, but actually a pretty dicey situation. So driver/observer safety in the tow vehicle is definitely another consideration depending on the field conditions/configuration.

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 7:40:06 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 8:30:06 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:

When I was a student pilot, we did 2-33 "cat shots" off Harris Hill with two old tow ropes spliced together, later with a proper 400' cable, into gentle late afternoon ridge lift, all powered by an old 307 Chevelle with questionable brakes (thanks Dave!). A total gas, never to be forgotten. Driving the car (which I did a lot) was even more exciting than flying the glider. The brow of the hill slopes off in a fashion that makes the nerves a little uneasy... especially with those rusty four wheel drum brakes.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

That reminded me. The far end of our runway had a steep dropoff into a corn field. On one tow, as I eased off the gas and got on the brakes... there weren't any. Or not much. Went all Dukes of Hazard and luckily landed safely on the downslope, ending up with the hood in the corn. Funny now, but actually a pretty dicey situation. So driver/observer safety in the tow vehicle is definitely another consideration depending on the field conditions/configuration.

All the winches I flew on in Europe had guillotines to cut the cable in an emergency (mandated in Germany). How do you do that with cars? I witnessed a near fatal accident with hanglider being towed by a car where the pilot flew a neat arc that ended with an impact. When I asked the person on the bed of the towing pickup how he had planned to sever the rope in such an event, he showed me his pocket knife!

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 10:11:57 AM UTC-4, wrote:


All the winches I flew on in Europe had guillotines to cut the cable in an emergency (mandated in Germany). How do you do that with cars? I witnessed a near fatal accident with hanglider being towed by a car where the pilot flew a neat arc that ended with an impact. When I asked the person on the bed of the towing pickup how he had planned to sever the rope in such an event, he showed me his pocket knife!

We had a very nice rig for that. The car end had Schweizer tow release mounted on a steel plate. The plate was hinged for freedom in the vertical axis. The plate and associated structure was mounted on a ball coupling that rode on the car's towball, allowing freedom in the horizontal axis. The rig had the usual Schweizer release rope (same as a towplane), so the back seat observer held the release rope in his hand and pulled it in an emergency. We also had a crash-ax mounted in back as an extra safety measure.

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 10:11:57 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 7:40:06 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 8:30:06 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:

When I was a student pilot, we did 2-33 "cat shots" off Harris Hill with two old tow ropes spliced together, later with a proper 400' cable, into gentle late afternoon ridge lift, all powered by an old 307 Chevelle with questionable brakes (thanks Dave!). A total gas, never to be forgotten. Driving the car (which I did a lot) was even more exciting than flying the glider. The brow of the hill slopes off in a fashion that makes the nerves a little uneasy... especially with those rusty four wheel drum brakes.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

That reminded me. The far end of our runway had a steep dropoff into a corn field. On one tow, as I eased off the gas and got on the brakes... there weren't any. Or not much. Went all Dukes of Hazard and luckily landed safely on the downslope, ending up with the hood in the corn. Funny now, but actually a pretty dicey situation. So driver/observer safety in the tow vehicle is definitely another consideration depending on the field conditions/configuration.

All the winches I flew on in Europe had guillotines to cut the cable in an emergency (mandated in Germany). How do you do that with cars?

We had a Schweizer tow hook mounted in place of a hitch ball.

-Evan

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:11:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:

All the winches I flew on in Europe had guillotines to cut the cable in an emergency (mandated in Germany). How do you do that with cars? I witnessed a near fatal accident with hanglider being towed by a car where the pilot flew a neat arc that ended with an impact. When I asked the person on the bed of the towing pickup how he had planned to sever the rope in such an event, he showed me his pocket knife!

Yikes! Like the others, we have a Schweizer hitch on a swivel so it is always line up with the rope tension, and a cable or cord to operate it. On my setup, I also have a hydraulic cylinder between the car and the hitch, with a gauge up front so I can see line tension and use this to help set the right speed.

Steve Leonard

At the Las Vegas tow weekend, they have a release mounted to the
receiver of the vehicle and the release rope routed to the observer.

On 10/5/2015 8:11 AM, wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 7:40:06 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 8:30:06 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:

When I was a student pilot, we did 2-33 "cat shots" off Harris Hill with two old tow ropes spliced together, later with a proper 400' cable, into gentle late afternoon ridge lift, all powered by an old 307 Chevelle with questionable brakes (thanks Dave!). A total gas, never to be forgotten. Driving the car (which I did a lot) was even more exciting than flying the glider. The brow of the hill slopes off in a fashion that makes the nerves a little uneasy... especially with those rusty four wheel drum brakes.

-Evan Ludeman / T8
That reminded me. The far end of our runway had a steep dropoff into a corn field. On one tow, as I eased off the gas and got on the brakes... there weren't any. Or not much. Went all Dukes of Hazard and luckily landed safely on the downslope, ending up with the hood in the corn. Funny now, but actually a pretty dicey situation. So driver/observer safety in the tow vehicle is definitely another consideration depending on the field conditions/configuration.
All the winches I flew on in Europe had guillotines to cut the cable in an emergency (mandated in Germany). How do you do that with cars? I witnessed a near fatal accident with hanglider being towed by a car where the pilot flew a neat arc that ended with an impact. When I asked the person on the bed of the towing pickup how he had planned to sever the rope in such an event, he showed me his pocket knife!

--
Dan, 5J

Wow! Great posts. I'll need time to read it all. Thanks.

We have an auto-tow rig in Ionia that has been used on rare occasion. Recently, a clinic was done in Cadillac and it was quite successful from what I understand. A number of people got sign offs, etc. But then it died again.

Tow pilot lobby? Ha!

Send them to Moriarty so I can step down from towing. It may be fun for
time builders or youngsters but, for me, it's just plain underpaid work
which takes time away from my soaring.

On 10/5/2015 11:27 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
Wow! Great posts. I'll need time to read it all. Thanks.

We have an auto-tow rig in Ionia that has been used on rare occasion. Recently, a clinic was done in Cadillac and it was quite successful from what I understand. A number of people got sign offs, etc. But then it died again.

My honest opinion. Aerotowing is popular because the tow pilot lobby likes flying tow planes for free, building hours, etc. We should be auto-towing more! Especially in early training. It's a safe, viable and great option and if done with great care (as aero and winch are) it could be really impactful to lowering costs and increasing the number of youth pilots being trained.

I think the public would get a kick out of seeing cars towing up gliders at airports! There is just something cool about it!

Anyway...back to work.

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 5:52:29 AM UTC+11, Dan Marotta wrote:
Tow pilot lobby?* Ha!



Send them to Moriarty so I can step down from towing.* It may be fun
for time builders or youngsters but, for me, it's just plain
underpaid work which takes time away from my soaring.




On 10/5/2015 11:27 AM, Sean Fidler
wrote:



Wow! Great posts. I'll need time to read it all. Thanks.

We have an auto-tow rig in Ionia that has been used on rare occasion. Recently, a clinic was done in Cadillac and it was quite successful from what I understand. A number of people got sign offs, etc. But then it died again.

My honest opinion. Aerotowing is popular because the tow pilot lobby likes flying tow planes for free, building hours, etc. We should be auto-towing more! Especially in early training. It's a safe, viable and great option and if done with great care (as aero and winch are) it could be really impactful to lowering costs and increasing the number of youth pilots being trained.

I think the public would get a kick out of seeing cars towing up gliders at airports! There is just something cool about it!

Anyway...back to work.





--

Dan, 5J

Paid tow pilots? I wish...
Oh, I forgot, this is the USA