Some good news

I guess our personal limits just differ from each other. Of course I
have experienced times when full deflection of the controls would not
stop a rolling or pitching action, but I was never concerned about it
because I kept my airspeed low enough that stall was more likely than
damage. Knowing how to recover from unusual attitudes and being
comfortable with aerobatics may help here.

My roughest wave flights have been in the Rockies, in the Wet Mountain
Valley near Westcliffe, and a bit west of Leadville. To date, what I've
seen around Moriarty, NM has been pretty benign. Note: I've run with
scissors and played with matches and I still have both eyes and all my
fingers. Your results may vary.

On 10/23/2015 8:19 AM, Bob Whelan wrote:
On 10/23/2015 1:26 AM, Tango Whisky wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2015 17:27:40 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
Rotor is the Boogie Man.

In the Air Force flight training they showed us movies of a B-52 whose
vertical tail had been torn off in an encounter with rotor. I feared
rotor, too, until encountering it for the first time in a glider
with the
airspeed well within the green arc. Yes, it's bumpy, but maintaining
control is a non-event. Using rotor to climb into the wave is
sometimes
the only way to get there. There's a terrific mix of up and down
but, if
you stay on the upwind side of the rotor, the net is up. You climb in
rough air and then, all of a sudden, it becomes silky smooth and the
rate
of climb increases rapidly. What a treat! Having said that, I still
have enough sense not to fly through rotor with the airspeed in the
yellow! Dan, 5J

I can assure you that there are rotors out there where you can't
maintain
control in a glider *at all*, even if you are spiraling with 80 kts.

Bert Ventus cM TW


+1 on TW's observation (my own being from Boulder, CO), though I
always attempted to hold a mere ~60 knots to reduce personal/ship G
loads, accepting whatever "unusual attitude" came my way. Worked for
me. Never been rolled beyond 90-degrees/vertical (against full
opposite controls) or pitched much more than +/- 45-degrees, but when
this - and you're sometimes enveloped in utterly still air just after
an impressive gust of some sort - happens vertically close to the
foothills, it's a real thrill. Apply your own versions of understated
humor to that last...

Bob W.

--
Dan, 5J

Am Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:09:28 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
I guess our personal limits just differ from each other.* Of course
I have experienced times when full deflection of the controls would
not stop a rolling or pitching action, but I was never concerned
about it because I kept my airspeed low enough that stall was more
likely than damage.* Knowing how to recover from unusual attitudes
and being comfortable with aerobatics may help here.

Dan, 5J

Dan, if you are spiraling with 80 kts in a rotor and one wing completely stalls, it's not about avoiding g-loads, it's about avoiding hitting the ground while you are in a fully deleveloped spin. Where I fly, rotors are very often below ridge level.
And yes, I'm fairly well trained - and current - in full aerobatics.

But fortunately, most rotors are just somewhat bumpy.

I agree with what you say. The point I was trying to make is that I
will not get into an 80 kt spiral. I will handle the aircraft well
before that can happen. All bets are off should I become immersed in
IMC, however. Though rated, my glider is not equipped for IMC. The IMC
part is unlikely where I fly due to the dryness of the air plus I have
no further desire to go above 18,000' MSL any more (too cold, don'tcha
know). I've been in rotor approaching extreme turbulence on both ends
of the tow rope at approximately 11,000' while downwind of 14,000'
peaks. It's a workout for sure. I also recall performing a near
split-S in the rotor (intentionally) to definitively notch the barograph
trace (back in the old days when cameras and barographs were the tools
of the sport). BTW, I made two glider flights and about 10 tows that
day and was the only pilot to achieve the altitude diamond.

I've seen some pretty extreme winds in the Mt. Washington area and I'll
bet you get stupendous wave. Perhaps your rotors are also more lively
than those in the Rockies. I haven't experienced the Sierra wave yet,
but it's on my list.

On 10/26/2015 3:38 AM, Tango Whisky wrote:
Am Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:09:28 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
I guess our personal limits just differ from each other. Of course
I have experienced times when full deflection of the controls would
not stop a rolling or pitching action, but I was never concerned
about it because I kept my airspeed low enough that stall was more
likely than damage. Knowing how to recover from unusual attitudes
and being comfortable with aerobatics may help here.
Dan, 5J
Dan, if you are spiraling with 80 kts in a rotor and one wing completely stalls, it's not about avoiding g-loads, it's about avoiding hitting the ground while you are in a fully deleveloped spin. Where I fly, rotors are very often below ridge level.
And yes, I'm fairly well trained - and current - in full aerobatics.

But fortunately, most rotors are just somewhat bumpy.

--
Dan, 5J