Some good news

At 16:28 24 October 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:


On a personal note, I used to unbuckle my parachute before getting out
of the glider because it's easier physically. About a year ago I
decided that it would be better to always leave the glider with the
'chute on to avoid unbuckling out of habit before an emergency exit.
Since then, I've been refining my method for getting out and it's much
easier now. I realize that g-loading can have quite an impact on exit,
either positive or negative.

I have always climbed out of the glider complete with parachute for the
reasons described above.
With the advancing years I have, on occasion, unbuckled the parachute to
make getting out easier. I found that to do this is very difficult. The leg
clips are difficult to reach to unclip so perhaps the danger of unclipping
in the event of an abandonment is less that it would appear.
It would be interesting to know whether in the case under discussion
whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go in with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.

Let's not under estimate the dreaded "tunnel vision", which I believe is a factor in most accidents and incidents.
This incident is a good example. Tunnel vision may have contributed to the pilot focusing on trying to decend through the gap instead of evaluating other options.
Tunnel vision will cause you to fixate on the task you most accustom to do, even if it is difficult to do. So if you are used to unbuckle the parachute in the cockpit, chances are that under the extreme stress of bailout (I can't imagine a more stressful situation as a pilot) tunnel vision will take over and you will unbuckle the parachute even if it is not straight forward. Same goes to if you are used to fly with a chute but occasionally don't , chances are that in an emergency you may bail out without checking if you wearing your chute. I heard stories about pilots bailing out without their chute.

Ramy

At 19:46 24 October 2015, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 16:28 24 October 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:


On a personal note, I used to unbuckle my parachute before getting out
of the glider because it's easier physically. About a year ago I
decided that it would be better to always leave the glider with the
'chute on to avoid unbuckling out of habit before an emergency exit.
Since then, I've been refining my method for getting out and it's much
easier now. I realize that g-loading can have quite an impact on exit,
either positive or negative.

I have always climbed out of the glider complete with parachute for th
reasons described above.
With the advancing years I have, on occasion, unbuckled the parachute t
make getting out easier. I found that to do this is very difficult. The
le
clips are difficult to reach to unclip so perhaps the danger of unclippin
in the event of an abandonment is less that it would appear.
It would be interesting to know whether in the case under discussio

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in the aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in WWII
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning the
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go in wit
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.

At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in the
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go in
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.


I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a "turn
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normally
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpit
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I also
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat straps),
which does check they are done up on getting in.

At 09:28 25 October 2015, Julian Rees wrote:
At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in th
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in
WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning
th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go i
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.


I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a
"tur
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normall
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpi
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I
als
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat
straps)
which does check they are done up on getting in.

I am old enough to remember the "turn and bang" single parachute release. I
remember being told that the original idea of having to turn and then
depress the turned lock was deliberate to make the sequence different from
the straightforward turn of the seat harness. Modern parachutes with 3
separate clips are completely different to the seat harness, however I can
well see that muscle memory might take over in a stressful situation if my
habit was to unbuckle the parachute before getting out every time.
With the EB80 that I currently wear it is very difficult, because I fit
very snugly into the cockpit, to unclip the leg straps while seated in the
cockpit. The two levers need to be pulled outwards to release the clips and
there is no room to do this in most gliders that I fly. Some contortion is
needed to successfully release the leg straps, something I feel I am very
unlikely to do if faced with abandonment. Because I have always climbed out
of the glider, still wearing the parachute, I have to make a concious
effort not to do so. My default if you like is to leave wearing the
parachute and I am happy with this.
I do remember on one occasion getting into the glider leaving the leg
straps undone, luckily sitting on the unsecured straps was extremely
uncomfortable so I discovered my error before flight.

....And getting out without the parachute is so much easier than lifting
the extra weight. That was part of my decision to keep the parachute on
when exiting at the end of the flight - it's harder. That requires more
strength so I worked (and am still working) on that.

On 10/25/2015 4:55 AM, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 09:28 25 October 2015, Julian Rees wrote:
At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in th
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in
WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning
th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go i
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.
I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a
"tur
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normall
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpi
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I
als
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat
straps)
which does check they are done up on getting in.

I am old enough to remember the "turn and bang" single parachute release. I
remember being told that the original idea of having to turn and then
depress the turned lock was deliberate to make the sequence different from
the straightforward turn of the seat harness. Modern parachutes with 3
separate clips are completely different to the seat harness, however I can
well see that muscle memory might take over in a stressful situation if my
habit was to unbuckle the parachute before getting out every time.
With the EB80 that I currently wear it is very difficult, because I fit
very snugly into the cockpit, to unclip the leg straps while seated in the
cockpit. The two levers need to be pulled outwards to release the clips and
there is no room to do this in most gliders that I fly. Some contortion is
needed to successfully release the leg straps, something I feel I am very
unlikely to do if faced with abandonment. Because I have always climbed out
of the glider, still wearing the parachute, I have to make a concious
effort not to do so. My default if you like is to leave wearing the
parachute and I am happy with this.
I do remember on one occasion getting into the glider leaving the leg
straps undone, luckily sitting on the unsecured straps was extremely
uncomfortable so I discovered my error before flight.


--
Dan, 5J

The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness, though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

Originally Posted by JS

Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness, though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

I can't comment on the pain involved with loose leg straps but a pilot in my club who baled out of a Discus CS in the last year was struck under the chin with the chest strap leaving quite a large contusion from ear to ear. The chest strap ended up on his forehead leaving one to ponder what may have been if he was knocked out or rendered insensible by the chest strap upon the chute opening

Colin

On 10/25/2015 2:50 PM, Ventus_a wrote:
JS;910133 Wrote:
Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to
repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness,
though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud
wrote:-
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug
the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when
standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on
this?-

I can't comment on the pain involved with loose leg straps but a pilot
in my club who baled out of a Discus CS in the last year was struck
under the chin with the chest strap leaving quite a large contusion from
ear to ear. The chest strap ended up on his forehead leaving one to
ponder what may have been if he was knocked out or rendered insensible
by the chest strap upon the chute opening

Colin

This is probably one of those arguments that can go on forever, but somewhen I
got into soaring I read that if you could stand up straight wearing a fully
buckled emergency chute harness, it wasn't tight enough, in the sense that if
you later used it from a sitting position, you'd wish afterwards that you'd
snugged all the straps up one last time *while* you were sitting.

The one time I used an emergency (round) chute a long time ago, I can't
remember if I snugged it up in the cockpit or not, but I DO remember the
harness-matching, colorful, yellow and purple bruises on my upper torso and
shoulders, including the buckles, afterward. I concluded my harness should've
been tighter. And that was without counting to three. No major leg bruises or
talking funny afterward...

Bob W.