Some good news

At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in the
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go in
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.


I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a "turn
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normally
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpit
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I also
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat straps),
which does check they are done up on getting in.

At 09:28 25 October 2015, Julian Rees wrote:
At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in th
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in
WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning
th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go i
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.


I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a
"tur
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normall
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpi
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I
als
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat
straps)
which does check they are done up on getting in.

I am old enough to remember the "turn and bang" single parachute release. I
remember being told that the original idea of having to turn and then
depress the turned lock was deliberate to make the sequence different from
the straightforward turn of the seat harness. Modern parachutes with 3
separate clips are completely different to the seat harness, however I can
well see that muscle memory might take over in a stressful situation if my
habit was to unbuckle the parachute before getting out every time.
With the EB80 that I currently wear it is very difficult, because I fit
very snugly into the cockpit, to unclip the leg straps while seated in the
cockpit. The two levers need to be pulled outwards to release the clips and
there is no room to do this in most gliders that I fly. Some contortion is
needed to successfully release the leg straps, something I feel I am very
unlikely to do if faced with abandonment. Because I have always climbed out
of the glider, still wearing the parachute, I have to make a concious
effort not to do so. My default if you like is to leave wearing the
parachute and I am happy with this.
I do remember on one occasion getting into the glider leaving the leg
straps undone, luckily sitting on the unsecured straps was extremely
uncomfortable so I discovered my error before flight.

....And getting out without the parachute is so much easier than lifting
the extra weight. That was part of my decision to keep the parachute on
when exiting at the end of the flight - it's harder. That requires more
strength so I worked (and am still working) on that.

On 10/25/2015 4:55 AM, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 09:28 25 October 2015, Julian Rees wrote:
At 07:30 25 October 2015, Chris Rollings wrote:

I believe that the "don't unbuckle the 'chute and leave it in th
aircraft
when you get out" advice, is based on one incident with a Spitfire in
WWI
in which the pilot was believed to have done just that when abandoning
th
aircraft. It seems a very small sample on which to base considerable
inconvenience for tens of thousands of pilots over a period of 75 years.

whether the parachute was unclipped in the cockpit or the pilot go i
with
his chute not secure, I suspect the latter is the more likely.
I also think this advice dates back to the days when parachutes had a
"tur
and press" quick release dropped all the straps. A modern chute normall
needs you to undo 3 buckles, none of which are similar to the cockpi
straps, so the risk is less.

However I still leave the chute on and struggle out of the cockpit! I
als
snug up the leg straps once seated in the cockpit (before the seat
straps)
which does check they are done up on getting in.

I am old enough to remember the "turn and bang" single parachute release. I
remember being told that the original idea of having to turn and then
depress the turned lock was deliberate to make the sequence different from
the straightforward turn of the seat harness. Modern parachutes with 3
separate clips are completely different to the seat harness, however I can
well see that muscle memory might take over in a stressful situation if my
habit was to unbuckle the parachute before getting out every time.
With the EB80 that I currently wear it is very difficult, because I fit
very snugly into the cockpit, to unclip the leg straps while seated in the
cockpit. The two levers need to be pulled outwards to release the clips and
there is no room to do this in most gliders that I fly. Some contortion is
needed to successfully release the leg straps, something I feel I am very
unlikely to do if faced with abandonment. Because I have always climbed out
of the glider, still wearing the parachute, I have to make a concious
effort not to do so. My default if you like is to leave wearing the
parachute and I am happy with this.
I do remember on one occasion getting into the glider leaving the leg
straps undone, luckily sitting on the unsecured straps was extremely
uncomfortable so I discovered my error before flight.


--
Dan, 5J

The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness, though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

Originally Posted by JS

Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness, though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

I can't comment on the pain involved with loose leg straps but a pilot in my club who baled out of a Discus CS in the last year was struck under the chin with the chest strap leaving quite a large contusion from ear to ear. The chest strap ended up on his forehead leaving one to ponder what may have been if he was knocked out or rendered insensible by the chest strap upon the chute opening

Colin

On 10/25/2015 2:50 PM, Ventus_a wrote:
JS;910133 Wrote:
Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to
repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness,
though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud
wrote:-
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug
the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when
standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on
this?-

I can't comment on the pain involved with loose leg straps but a pilot
in my club who baled out of a Discus CS in the last year was struck
under the chin with the chest strap leaving quite a large contusion from
ear to ear. The chest strap ended up on his forehead leaving one to
ponder what may have been if he was knocked out or rendered insensible
by the chest strap upon the chute opening

Colin

This is probably one of those arguments that can go on forever, but somewhen I
got into soaring I read that if you could stand up straight wearing a fully
buckled emergency chute harness, it wasn't tight enough, in the sense that if
you later used it from a sitting position, you'd wish afterwards that you'd
snugged all the straps up one last time *while* you were sitting.

The one time I used an emergency (round) chute a long time ago, I can't
remember if I snugged it up in the cockpit or not, but I DO remember the
harness-matching, colorful, yellow and purple bruises on my upper torso and
shoulders, including the buckles, afterward. I concluded my harness should've
been tighter. And that was without counting to three. No major leg bruises or
talking funny afterward...

Bob W.

At 03:02 26 October 2015, BobW wrote:
This is probably one of those arguments that can go on forever, but
somewhen I
got into soaring I read that if you could stand up straight wearing a
fully
buckled emergency chute harness, it wasn't tight enough, in the sense
that
if you later used it from a sitting position, you'd wish afterwards that
you'd
snugged all the straps up one last time *while* you were sitting.


Some time ago I bought a Thomas Sports "pop top" parachute & picked it up
directly from "Lofty" Thomas (very well known in UK army and civilian
parachuting circles, over 1500 jumps) who also repeated the above advice
that if you can stand up straight the leg straps are not tight enough.

I asked his advice on jumping from a glider & remember the words even
though it was 25 years ago. He said "As soon as you are clear pull the
handle hard, dont bother with this 'one, two, three...splat' stuff. In
fact (he said) if you are having serious troubles getting out and are in a
hurry, as long as you can get your back clear and in the airsteam, just
pull the handle, the drogue will deploy and the chute will pull you out,
although you might break the odd bone in the process!. The risks of the
chute tangling in the airframe are much less than the risk of getting out
too low."

I would imagine this may depend on chute design - his have strong coil
spring that throws the drogue quite a way.

Luckily I have never had to put this advice into practice, although I still
wear a (newer) Thomas chute.

I do worry as age creeps on about how easy or difficult it would be to exit
a damaged glider, I just hope that in the event the adrenalin would give
you the necessary strength! It's always very useful to hear first hand
accounts of this so many thanks for posting experiences on here.

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 11:06:09 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on this?

That is correct. Properly snug legstraps will be loose in the sitting position. Folks can try it, snug up legstraps sit in a chair resnug them then get up and try moving around.