Some good news

I'd agree with any of these. The point is, it's insane to fly in wave or conditions where clouds could form without some sort of artificial horizon. Btw an added advantage of the right foreflight subscription is that it will also give you terrain and clearance. Death seems like a poor bargain vs a couple of thousand, that could be a shared asset at a club or rented at a commercial operation.

It's not insane to fly in wave without an artificial horizon. I've been doing it for decades. You have to be careful and know what you are doing. Do the people that call it insane ever fly in wave? Nothing I hate worst than people that have never done something telling the people that do it all the time how to do it or that it is insane. It's not smart to soar in the wave when you don't know what you are e doing and don't get a proper education from the local pilots that fly there all the time. It's insane to fly a glider without the proper training. It's insane to winch launch without the proper training. It's s insane to fly XC without the proper training. Our sport is about being smart, not about having the right instruments.

Boggs

At 14:44 03 November 2015, Waveguru wrote:
It's not insane to fly in wave without an artificial horizon. I've been
doi=
ng it for decades. You have to be careful and know what you are doing. Do
t=
he people that call it insane ever fly in wave? Nothing I hate worst than
p=
eople that have never done something telling the people that do it all
the
=
time how to do it or that it is insane. It's not smart to soar in the
wave=
when you don't know what you are e doing and don't get a proper
education
=
from the local pilots that fly there all the time. It's insane to fly a
gli=
der without the proper training. It's insane to winch launch without the
pr=
oper training. It's s insane to fly XC without the proper training. Our
spo=
rt is about being smart, not about having the right instruments.=20

Boggs


+1

At 14:44 03 November 2015, Waveguru wrote:
It's not insane to fly in wave without an artificial horizon. I've been
doi=
ng it for decades. You have to be careful and know what you are doing. Do
t=
he people that call it insane ever fly in wave? Nothing I hate worst than
p=
eople that have never done something telling the people that do it all
the
=
time how to do it or that it is insane. It's not smart to soar in the
wave=
when you don't know what you are e doing and don't get a proper
education
=
from the local pilots that fly there all the time. It's insane to fly a
gli=
der without the proper training. It's insane to winch launch without the
pr=
oper training. It's s insane to fly XC without the proper training. Our
spo=
rt is about being smart, not about having the right instruments.=20

Boggs


+1

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 9:44:20 AM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
It's not insane to fly in wave without an artificial horizon. I've been doing it for decades. You have to be careful and know what you are doing. Do the people that call it insane ever fly in wave? Nothing I hate worst than people that have never done something telling the people that do it all the time how to do it or that it is insane. It's not smart to soar in the wave when you don't know what you are e doing and don't get a proper education from the local pilots that fly there all the time. It's insane to fly a glider without the proper training. It's insane to winch launch without the proper training. It's s insane to fly XC without the proper training. Our sport is about being smart, not about having the right instruments.

Boggs

Boggs, you are absolutely spot on. IMC in gliders is 100% avoidable. The day of the accidents, most of us were doing other things because (wait for it) the weather just wasn't very good. It takes more than rising air to make a good soaring day.

Evan Ludeman / T8

Some thoughts:

If you don't know how to fly instruments, either learn (get training from a CFII) or stay out of clouds. And wear a chute.

Staying out of clouds requires, discipline, knowledge, and some luck.

If you think there is a serious chance that you will find yourself in IMC, investing in some sort of attitude indicator would be money well spent. $1000 gets you a portable (non-TSO) Dynon attitude indicator; or a TruTrak Gemini (http://www.trutrakap.com/product/gemini/). Either will save your butt if you know how to use it. Same for a Butterfly vario, if you win the lottery :^)

Unless you practice a lot in actual IMC, trying to switch to needle, ball, and airspeed (or a TruTrak turn coordinator) when suddenly enveloped in a cloud, may not be as easy as some may think... An attidude indicator MAY be easier, but practice would still be necessary (Foggles in a glider? Leave you canopy cover on inflight? Have your glider buddy in formation in his glider to keep a good lookout?).

Really, it boils down to managing risk. And we all know how well humans do that...

Me, I want an AOA gauge!

Kirk
66

Flying in IMC involves a lot more than just
staying right side up.

Not flying into cumulo granitus or towers
or cables and not getting in the way of
IFR traffic are the next priorities.

A midair in cloud would be disastrous for
our sport. Center needs to know where
you are to keep other traffic clear. I leave
it as an exercise for the reader to find
your local center frequency.

A transponder would greatly enhance any
dialog with center.

Hopefully your pitot and static don't ice
up.

That said IFR traffic greatly prefers to
avoid rotor and wave, but if you have to
run downwind to landable terrain and
can't find a hole, the possibility of other
traffic increases.

That TruTrak Gemini looks like something I might like in my next glider.

On 11/3/2015 9:46 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
Some thoughts:

If you don't know how to fly instruments, either learn (get training from a CFII) or stay out of clouds. And wear a chute.

Staying out of clouds requires, discipline, knowledge, and some luck.

If you think there is a serious chance that you will find yourself in IMC, investing in some sort of attitude indicator would be money well spent. $1000 gets you a portable (non-TSO) Dynon attitude indicator; or a TruTrak Gemini (http://www.trutrakap.com/product/gemini/). Either will save your butt if you know how to use it. Same for a Butterfly vario, if you win the lottery :^)

Unless you practice a lot in actual IMC, trying to switch to needle, ball, and airspeed (or a TruTrak turn coordinator) when suddenly enveloped in a cloud, may not be as easy as some may think... An attidude indicator MAY be easier, but practice would still be necessary (Foggles in a glider? Leave you canopy cover on inflight? Have your glider buddy in formation in his glider to keep a good lookout?).

Really, it boils down to managing risk. And we all know how well humans do that...

Me, I want an AOA gauge!

Kirk
66

--
Dan, 5J

I shall be replacing my T&S with one of these over the winter:
http://www.kanardia.eu/products/horis-adahrs

They don't appear to have a US dealer but the price seems reasonable &
2.25" suits my panel better.


At 19:12 03 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
That TruTrak Gemini looks like something I might like in my next glider.

On 11/3/2015 9:46 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
Some thoughts:

If you don't know how to fly instruments, either learn (get training
from
a CFII) or stay out of clouds. And wear a chute.

Staying out of clouds requires, discipline, knowledge, and some luck.

If you think there is a serious chance that you will find yourself in
IMC, investing in some sort of attitude indicator would be money well
spent. $1000 gets you a portable (non-TSO) Dynon attitude indicator; or
a
TruTrak Gemini (http://www.trutrakap.com/product/gemini/). Either will
save
your butt if you know how to use it. Same for a Butterfly vario, if you
win
the lottery :^)

Unless you practice a lot in actual IMC, trying to switch to needle,
ball, and airspeed (or a TruTrak turn coordinator) when suddenly
enveloped
in a cloud, may not be as easy as some may think... An attidude indicator
MAY be easier, but practice would still be necessary (Foggles in a
glider?
Leave you canopy cover on inflight? Have your glider buddy in formation
in
his glider to keep a good lookout?).

Really, it boils down to managing risk. And we all know how well
humans
do that...

Me, I want an AOA gauge!

Kirk
66

--
Dan, 5J

I really should have read the entire thread rather than replying
individually to the various bad ideas here.

I'm trying to visualize a commercial glider operation that would rent a
tablet with some "cheap" software (neither of which has been tested nor
certified) to someone to go fly in conditions which might lead to a trip
into IMC. I can see the grieving widows with their poor, pathetic
children, and the greedy lawyers preparing their briefs right now.

The Dynon D2 looks like a fine piece of equipment but it does not have
the TSO to be used in IFR flying. But most all airplanes built in the
past 50-60 years come out of the factory with an attitude indicator,
directional gyro, VSI, altimeter, and airspeed indicator and STILL
people come falling out of the bottom of the clouds. Having a TV picture
of the same instruments will not make you an instrument pilot. And I
can not even conceive of and instrument rated pilot making such dumb
suggestions. If you're competent and comfortable with flight in IMC
then, legalities aside, you might succeed with with what you suggest but
what if, say, an email alert pops up in the middle of your display just
as your aircraft is beginning a slow upset? Or any other kind of
interrupt which slows/stops/obscures your display? Do you text while
you drive?

OK, I'm going to see how long it will be until the next bright idea
comes along.

On 11/3/2015 5:38 AM, Andrew Ainslie wrote:
I'd agree with any of these. The point is, it's insane to fly in wave or conditions where clouds could form without some sort of artificial horizon. Btw an added advantage of the right foreflight subscription is that it will also give you terrain and clearance. Death seems like a poor bargain vs a couple of thousand, that could be a shared asset at a club or rented at a commercial operation.

--
Dan, 5J