Can't buy them all, choosing between ASW19 vs LS1 vs PIK20

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 9:33:48 PM UTC-5, Christopher Giacomo wrote:
Just Wondering, what turned you off of the Pik? Was it the wet wings stories or the problem supporting major fiberglass repairs? I'm starting a similar search, so this thread has been very helpful.
Chris

I have not given up on the PIK, the one I was looking at near me is not visible yet because I asked he went through inspection before driving 5 hours to get there... What worries me about PIKs is the numbers of offerings : it seems that there are a lot offered for sale, here and there, for no good reason other than the sellers might know something we do not. Other than that I have heard good thing about that kind of ship, you have to be ready to use flaps a lot and not rely on spoilers much, some say it's a challenging glider to fly and have recommended to not let low hours pilots get on it too soon without proper briefing and training. Personally I have used flaps on power plane, so I like the idea of a fully flapped glider, even without spoilers, but I have no experience flying a PIK yet.

The glider market is sophisticated. If there are a number of a certain model being offered at apparently low prices it is less likely that you'll sell it easily and get your money back. The best hope is to sell it to someone who doesn't realise that as a first glider - and so complete the cycle.

(Speaking as someone who bought a Diamant 18 as a first glass glider.)

My take is that there are more pilots looking for their second ships.
First time buyers benefit from the low prices of the older ships which,
while no match for the current crop of gliders, can still make a
remarkable showing. After a year or two, you'll want something "better"
(read newer), and you'll offer it for about what you paid for it or even
a bit more! Let's say you buy a glider for $20K, fly it for 2 years/300
hours (if you're a wild man!), and sell it for $18K. You've flown much
better performance than you could have rented and paid only about
$7/hour plus whatever fixed costs you pay for storage, maintenance, and
insurance. How's that for a deal?

On 11/8/2015 5:01 AM, wrote:
The glider market is sophisticated. If there are a number of a certain model being offered at apparently low prices it is less likely that you'll sell it easily and get your money back. The best hope is to sell it to someone who doesn't realise that as a first glider - and so complete the cycle.

(Speaking as someone who bought a Diamant 18 as a first glass glider.)

--
Dan, 5J

Yes but I have found that some sellers think the price someone should pay is equal to "how much money they put in their [beloved] ship". While it's a good thing to know they loved their glider and probably took great care of it, hoping to recover 100% of the money you put in it is plain naive and ignoring depreciation and the fact that better gliders are now available at the price they paid for their ship 5 or 7 years ago. And the ship they bought 5 years ago is now 5 years older, probably has new ADs to comply with, some cables to change, a higher probability for some unexpected maintenance, etc... Also winter is coming, someone needs to pay for storage for a few months, at least here out East :-)

You are correct about pricing, of course, but I wouldn't expect to see
many ADs or service bulletins for ships whose manufacturers are no
longer around and I think a 30 year old glider is fully depreciated.
Any decent shop should be able to make repair parts, if needed. Storage
can be in your back yard (assuming you have one). I used to bring my
glider into my walk-out basement over the winter to apply all the TLC
that it deserved.

Bottom line is that the price is what the market will bear regardless of
what the seller paid unless it's really priced for quick sale.

On 11/8/2015 8:28 PM, PAGA wrote:
Yes but I have found that some sellers think the price someone should pay is equal to "how much money they put in their [beloved] ship". While it's a good thing to know they loved their glider and probably took great care of it, hoping to recover 100% of the money you put in it is plain naive and ignoring depreciation and the fact that better gliders are now available at the price they paid for their ship 5 or 7 years ago. And the ship they bought 5 years ago is now 5 years older, probably has new ADs to comply with, some cables to change, a higher probability for some unexpected maintenance, etc... Also winter is coming, someone needs to pay for storage for a few months, at least here out East :-)

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 11:11:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
... but I wouldn't expect to
see many ADs or service bulletins for ships whose manufacturers are
no longer around and I think a 30 year old glider is fully
depreciated.* Any decent shop should be able to make repair parts,
if needed.* Storage can be in your back yard (assuming you have
one).* ...
Dan, 5J

That's a very good point, it's like for classic cars: all you need is to know a good trustworthy local mechanic and to maintain a clean/safe storage/garage.

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 11:11:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I wouldn't expect to see many ADs or service bulletins for ships whose manufacturers are no longer around

and that is an advantage or disadvantage?

Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks.

Consider that the aircraft was found to be acceptable to the approving
authority at the time of its creation and was still considered airworthy
when the manufacturer faded into history. At some point the owner has
to decide if he is comfortable flying the aircraft. The owner of the
hangar where I keep my glider is restoring a 65-year old airplane. From
my observation it will be better than original. So what if there's no
manufacturer to tell him that it's safe to fly? He will make that
decision himself and will present it to an inspector for an
airworthiness certificate. I have no doubt it will be approved. It
will be up to him thereafter (and to subsequent owners) to decide that
the aircraft is safe to operate.

And, to your original question, I consider it an advantage.

Cheers!
Dan

On 11/30/2015 12:49 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 11:11:56 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I wouldn't expect to see many ADs or service bulletins for ships whose manufacturers are no longer around
and that is an advantage or disadvantage?

--
Dan, 5J