XCSoar and Wind

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 12:50:31 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.

Ramy

This reminds me of sitting around listening to Airbus and Boeing pilots debate the flight laws of their software. It's not as entertaining though when I think about how opaque some parts of flying have become with the introduction of automation.
Craig

OK, I flew the Sinus today. I could find no way to configure the Streak
to calculate wind based upon circling. I flew for 1.7 hours and had no
wind display until I manually entered what I thought was the wind at
altitude. I determined that by flying upwind/downwind and taking half
the difference between ground speeds as the the wind speed. It's clear
that the internal GPS in my Streak works but there doesn't seem to be a
way to make it display calculated wind.

I wish one of the developers would just tell us how to do it. I can't
find anything in the manual, either.

Frustrated...

On 11/19/2015 1:50 PM, Ramy wrote:
with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.

Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 5:58:27 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
OK, I flew the Sinus today.* I could find no way to configure the
Streak to calculate wind based upon circling.* I flew for 1.7 hours
and had no wind display until I manually entered what I thought was
the wind at altitude.* I determined that by flying upwind/downwind
and taking half the difference between ground speeds as the the wind
speed.* It's clear that the internal GPS in my Streak works but
there doesn't seem to be a way to make it display calculated wind.



I wish one of the developers would just tell us how to do it.* I
can't find anything in the manual, either.



Frustrated...




On 11/19/2015 1:50 PM, Ramy wrote:



with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.

Ramy





--

Dan, 5J

David, thanks for clarifying.
Dan, you can try your luck by posting to the xcsoar forum (link provided earlier in this thread). You may get an answer or you may get burned ;-)

Ramy

On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2, wrote:
OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that overrides the External wind.

In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the Manual wind and it goes back to using External (if present).

Hope that's how it is.

David


I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of the main developers) replied.

Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is available?

Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.

On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 2:58:27 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
the wind at altitude.* I determined that by flying upwind/downwind
and taking half the difference between ground speeds as the the wind
speed.

That's also what Circling Wind in XCSoar does.

Roel

Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2, wrote:
OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that overrides the External wind.

In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the Manual wind and it goes back to using External (if present).

Hope that's how it is.

David

I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of the main developers) replied.

Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is available?

Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.

--
Dan, 5J

If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.

At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
wrote:
OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
overrides the External wind.

In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
(it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
Manual
wind and it goes back to using External (if present).

Hope that's how it is.

David

I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
the
main developers) replied.

Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
available?

Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.

--
Dan, 5J

Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out. Next time...

On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett wrote:
If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.

At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
wrote:
OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
overrides the External wind.
In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
(it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
Manual
wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
Hope that's how it is.

David
I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
the
main developers) replied.
Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
available?
Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
--
Dan, 5J


--
Dan, 5J

Hey Dan,

After poking around through the code, it looks like if you need a couple things to get GPS only winds:
1) Average GPS update rate of 2 sec between updates over the duration of the circle. So dropouts during the circle could disqualify it from the calculation.

2) And the time to complete the 360 turn needs to be less than 50 samples. Not sure, but I think the Streak has a nominal 1 second update rate.

The quality of the wind estimate improves with more turns and with more constant airspeed control. I'm not sure if circling detection has to occur before wind calculation can start, but you probably need a couple good relatively tight turns to make it compute the winds.

It is open source, so you can change it if you're willing to dig into it.

Dave, ZL


On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out.* Next
time...




On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett
wrote:



If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.

At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:


Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:


On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,



wrote:




OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is



present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
overrides the External wind.



In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears



(it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the


Manual


wind and it goes back to using External (if present).



Hope that's how it is.

David


I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of



the


main developers) replied.


Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is


available?


Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.


--
Dan, 5J








--

Dan, 5J

Thanks Dave,

Patti could do it - I can't. Maybe I can put her to work... ;-)

On 11/20/2015 3:18 PM, Dave Leonard wrote:
Hey Dan,

After poking around through the code, it looks like if you need a couple things to get GPS only winds:
1) Average GPS update rate of 2 sec between updates over the duration of the circle. So dropouts during the circle could disqualify it from the calculation.

2) And the time to complete the 360 turn needs to be less than 50 samples. Not sure, but I think the Streak has a nominal 1 second update rate.

The quality of the wind estimate improves with more turns and with more constant airspeed control. I'm not sure if circling detection has to occur before wind calculation can start, but you probably need a couple good relatively tight turns to make it compute the winds.

It is open source, so you can change it if you're willing to dig into it.

Dave, ZL


On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out. Next
time...




On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett
wrote:



If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.

At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:


Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:


On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,



wrote:




OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In =6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is



present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
overrides the External wind.



In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears



(it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the


Manual


wind and it goes back to using External (if present).



Hope that's how it is.

David


I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of



the


main developers) replied.


Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is


available?


Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.


--
Dan, 5J








--

Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J