Accident in Namibia, SH Ventus 2cxm

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 2:39:58 PM UTC-6, smfidler wrote:
http://www.az.com.na/unf-lle/schweiz...ngl-ckt.428806

Thank you Sean, very tragic. Why are they having all those accidents? The article is also referring to the ASH 25 that crashed recently killing two New Zealanders. It is indeed unbelievable that they don't carry satellite trackers.

Its really sad. The sport is so fun, but the accidents are so tragic. I really think we need to be more open about the causes, share the traces, more promptly share the facts so that we all can understand the reasons and make changes, if mecessary, to our own decision making process.

Was this an error in judgement?

Was is medical? Heat? Long flight?

Did the glider break?

Why no tracker? Did it fail? User Error?

With each accident, huge amounts of information is held close to the chest by many (I have been guilty of this myself) in order to protect themselves, or the feelings of others. I get it...but big picture...shouldnt we all be able to see the IGC traces of any glider accident. No commentary, respect, but the chance to see the general decision making if it was pilot error.

I know these ideas have a snowballs chance in hell. But I wish they were accepted.

I want my trace shared if I am killed in an accident. I want people to learn all that they can from any mistake I make. I will have no ego left to bruise!

Sean

+1 Sean,
The problem, however, almost always comes down pride. Most pilots (students and experienced) that I have instructed with have a difficult time staying non-defensive when their safety margin on a pattern or landing is questioned.
Now extrapolate that out to a situation where there is a very public embarrassment and serious internal questioning of your pilot and decision-making skills, and it starts to become far more understandable that the wreckage we get tossed in the back of the barn and the pilots not want to talk about it until after it has become news. If you are dead, well I guess your ego statement would be accurate, but no surviving family members wants to hear RAS's comments and speculation about their now deceased idiot, nitwit, or whatever otherwise disrespectful term the peanut gallery musters up...If this forum can't respectfully debate whether to partially silence a radar for the spirit of competition, do you really trust them to professionally discuss a decision process that ended in fatality?

In my case (see Oct post), Getting over that first hurdle of internal analysis and self-reflection was the hardest step. Once over that step by discussions with a few very experienced and thoughtful mentors, the public analysis and discussion actually became very helpful and almost therapeutic in "getting over it."

I agree it is incredibly helpful and rare that accident data is shared, but the hardest decision I made during and after my accident was weighing safety and educational benefit with ridicule and reprisal by sharing the story and data on RAS. I am glad that I did, and have already given 2 safety presentations on the accident, but I fully understand why others would not.

Chris
(Formerly "MW")

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 1:52:46 PM UTC-5, Christopher Giacomo wrote:

I agree it is incredibly helpful and rare that accident data is shared

I just learned that some of the raw data of an NTSB accident investigation is available

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/projList.cfm

Here is the data on the NTSB docket for Chris's accident.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hi...6063B8EB734D45

There is for example a .pdf map of the flight path, but the IGC log file is not included.

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 5:06:09 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 1:52:46 PM UTC-5, Christopher Giacomo wrote:

I agree it is incredibly helpful and rare that accident data is shared

I just learned that some of the raw data of an NTSB accident investigation is available

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/projList.cfm

Here is the data on the NTSB docket for Chris's accident.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hi...6063B8EB734D45

There is for example a .pdf map of the flight path, but the IGC log file is not included.

Ironic that this would come up...the FAA sent me a nice e-mail today, and 3 months later they have decided with the NTSB that they changed their mind, and bailing out of a glider is now considered an "accident", not an "incident" or "occurrence" as previously thought. Time for some more paperwork...

Good post Chris. Well put. No easy answers.

Best,

Sean

Terrible news. Having just flown a V2CX in South Africa (with SPOT) I wonder if the pilot was trying to start the engine too low and got into trouble. Hard to tell from the wreck photos. Apparently he went head on, likely from a low altitude spin. Depending on the area in Namibia good places to land out may be few and far between.

Also, the pilot had not logged any flights since his arrival on OLC, which is customary.
More photos of the wreck he

http://internationalflyerz.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=22363

Juan

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 1:02:10 PM UTC-5, smfidler wrote:
Its really sad. The sport is so fun, but the accidents are so tragic. I really think we need to be more open about the causes, share the traces, more promptly share the facts so that we all can understand the reasons and make changes, if mecessary, to our own decision making process.

Was this an error in judgement?

Was is medical? Heat? Long flight?

Did the glider break?

Why no tracker? Did it fail? User Error?

With each accident, huge amounts of information is held close to the chest by many (I have been guilty of this myself) in order to protect themselves, or the feelings of others. I get it...but big picture...shouldnt we all be able to see the IGC traces of any glider accident. No commentary, respect, but the chance to see the general decision making if it was pilot error.

I know these ideas have a snowballs chance in hell. But I wish they were accepted.

I want my trace shared if I am killed in an accident. I want people to learn all that they can from any mistake I make. I will have no ego left to bruise!

Sean

+1 Sean
I film and log all my flights (position is also streamed in real time to SkyLines and LiveTrack24) so that if something happens people can figure out how I screwed up even if the authorities refuse to release the data or take years to finalize the accident investigation.
The update rate on the live tracking may not capture the last few seconds or there may be spotty coverage but at least people should be able to figure out if I was being stupid enough to scratch around at low altitude and low airspeed a few moments before.

In the absence of reliable eye witnesses all that people can do is speculate but the high speed vertical component in most of these accidents tends to point towards low altitude stall/spin scenarios.

Here are the fatal glider crashes in Namibia and South Africa that I am aware from January 2014 to date.

20th January 2014
Location: Tempe airport, South Africa
Glider: JS1C
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: The 51 year old Norwegian pilot had over 1000 hours of gliding experience and previously flew F16's in the Norwegian Airforce.
Cause: Stall/spin off an aerotow at 300 feet AGL according to eye witnesses..

24th May 2014
Location: Howick, South Africa
Glider: ASK 13
Injuries/fatalities: 2 fatalities
Pilot experience: A 62 year old with over 30 years flying experience and a 65 year old with more than 10 years flying experience.
Cause: Probably stall and spin from low altitude while ridge soaring.

30th November 2014
Location: Kiripotib, Namibia
Glider: ASH-25-EB-28
Injuries/fatalities: 2 fatalities
Pilot experience: Two very experienced New Zealand pilots aged 66 and 77.
Cause: Unknown

4th October 2015
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
Glider: Speed Astir
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: A 58 year old with 250 flying hours.
Cause: Probably low altitude stall/spin. Pilot was apparently scratching for lift at low altitude close the the airfield.

24th December 2015
Location: Bitterwasser, Namibia
Glider: Ventus 2CX
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: 46-year-old Swiss pilot. Flying experience unknown.
Cause: Unknown

On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 2:10:39 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
+1 Sean
I film and log all my flights (position is also streamed in real time to SkyLines and LiveTrack24) so that if something happens people can figure out how I screwed up even if the authorities refuse to release the data or take years to finalize the accident investigation.
The update rate on the live tracking may not capture the last few seconds or there may be spotty coverage but at least people should be able to figure out if I was being stupid enough to scratch around at low altitude and low airspeed a few moments before.

In the absence of reliable eye witnesses all that people can do is speculate but the high speed vertical component in most of these accidents tends to point towards low altitude stall/spin scenarios.

Here are the fatal glider crashes in Namibia and South Africa that I am aware from January 2014 to date.

20th January 2014
Location: Tempe airport, South Africa
Glider: JS1C
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: The 51 year old Norwegian pilot had over 1000 hours of gliding experience and previously flew F16's in the Norwegian Airforce.
Cause: Stall/spin off an aerotow at 300 feet AGL according to eye witnesses.

24th May 2014
Location: Howick, South Africa
Glider: ASK 13
Injuries/fatalities: 2 fatalities
Pilot experience: A 62 year old with over 30 years flying experience and a 65 year old with more than 10 years flying experience.
Cause: Probably stall and spin from low altitude while ridge soaring.

30th November 2014
Location: Kiripotib, Namibia
Glider: ASH-25-EB-28
Injuries/fatalities: 2 fatalities
Pilot experience: Two very experienced New Zealand pilots aged 66 and 77.
Cause: Unknown

4th October 2015
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
Glider: Speed Astir
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: A 58 year old with 250 flying hours.
Cause: Probably low altitude stall/spin. Pilot was apparently scratching for lift at low altitude close the the airfield.

24th December 2015
Location: Bitterwasser, Namibia
Glider: Ventus 2CX
Injuries/fatalities: 1 fatality
Pilot experience: 46-year-old Swiss pilot. Flying experience unknown.
Cause: Unknown

Surge, is there a report available for the accident on 20th January 2014? If so could you send me a link?

Andrzej

On Wednesday, 6 January 2016 01:01:08 UTC+2, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
Surge, is there a report available for the accident on 20th January 2014? If so could you send me a link?

Andrzej

Unfortunately the South African CAA hasn't posted the accident report online yet so I can only assume that they're still busy finalising the investigation or they've failed to publish it on their website (neither of which would surprise me).
http://www.caa.co.za/Pages/Accidents...t-reports.aspx


Eye witnesses report seeing the glider spin in from approximately 300 feet AGL and the tug pilot reported a severe pull on the tow rope which broke.

The only official news was a statement made by the Chairman of Soaring Society of South Africa:

At 12h20 today a 51 year old pilot from Norway was killed in a social gliding accident near Tempe airport. The next of kin was informed telephonically shortly thereafter. The pilot is known as Mr Arent Arntzen and was killed when his aircraft allegedly spun into the ground after breaking the tow rope of the "tug plane" taking the glider up. The Pilot has more than 1000 hours of gliding experience and previously flew F16's in the Norwegian Airforce.

The tug pilot immediately radioed the accident to a passing military helicopter who dropped a paramedic at the scene shortly thereafter. The local flying school operation at Tempe was also contacted and implemented the emergency protocol immediately. It is believed that the pilot was killed on impact. Tempe hosts gliding facilities for Europeans wishing to fly in South Africa for leisure during their winter months.

The Civil Aviation Authority has been contacted and will proceed with an investigation as to the reason for the accident.

Soaring is regarded as one of the safest sports and have a very good track record. Whether the pilot incurred a medical problem, pilot error or equipment failure is best left to the investigation team to discourage speculation.

The Soaring Society of South Africa extends its condolences to the family of the deceased.

Kind regards

Dirk Smit
Chairman of Soaring Society of South Africa - SSSA