General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Robey Price
Date: 6/4/04 12:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Minor point of order...gwb graduated from UPT in Nov 1969 (IIRC),
qualified in the 102 in July 1970 and his last flight in a single
engine/single seat fighter was April 1972. He never flew the F-102
again.

My poor math skills indicate that he was operational for less than two
years, of course your math may come up with a different answer.
Perhaps he got bored with it.

Robey



Time in service isn't an indicition of much of anything. I know guys who spent
20 years in and spent it all behind a desk in Ohio. A guy with 10 minutes on
Omaha Beach outranks him no matter what the rank. It's not the time it's the
action.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 04 Jun 2004 19:22:57 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Time in service isn't an indicition of much of anything. I know guys who spent
20 years in and spent it all behind a desk in Ohio. A guy with 10 minutes on
Omaha Beach outranks him no matter what the rank. It's not the time it's the
action.


Arthur Kramer

And you don't owe your combat survival to literally hundreds of folks
who weren't in combat but who worked hard to qualify and support your
effort?

If time is the criteria (stand by for cheap shot...), how much time to
you have as pilot-in-command? As a rated AF pilot? As pilot of a
Century Series jet? Solo?

C'mon, Art, we know you don't like Bush. That's fine and perfectly
acceptable. But, don't manipulate facts in the hope that somehow you
will prove that he is less of a man than you.

And, you really don't want to start on Kerry and his Winter Soldier
activities, do you?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

In article ,
Ed Rasimus wrote:

And you don't owe your combat survival to literally hundreds of folks
who weren't in combat but who worked hard to qualify and support your
effort?

You know, like the guys who flew around in less-than-wonderful aircraft
protecting the States while the rest of them were dropping bombs
somewhere.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 3:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 04 Jun 2004 19:22:57 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Time in service isn't an indicition of much of anything. I know guys who
spent
20 years in and spent it all behind a desk in Ohio. A guy with 10 minutes on
Omaha Beach outranks him no matter what the rank. It's not the time it's
the
action.


Arthur Kramer

And you don't owe your combat survival to literally hundreds of folks
who weren't in combat but who worked hard to qualify and support your
effort?

If time is the criteria (stand by for cheap shot...), how much time to
you have as pilot-in-command? As a rated AF pilot? As pilot of a
Century Series jet? Solo?

Don't let this pioot stuff go to your head. The entire purpose of a bombing
mission in WW II was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The
pilot was just the driver. And when it came to flying good bomb runs some
pilots weren't worth a ****.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote


If time is the criteria (stand by for cheap shot...), how much time to
you have as pilot-in-command? As a rated AF pilot? As pilot of a
Century Series jet? Solo?

Don't let this pioot stuff go to your head. The entire purpose of a
bombing
mission in WW II was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The
pilot was just the driver. And when it came to flying good bomb runs some
pilots weren't worth a ****.

And today, the pilot, navigator, bombardier and gunner may well be the same
guy.

Pete

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Pete"
Date: 6/4/04 6:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote


If time is the criteria (stand by for cheap shot...), how much time to
you have as pilot-in-command? As a rated AF pilot? As pilot of a
Century Series jet? Solo?

Don't let this pioot stuff go to your head. The entire purpose of a
bombing
mission in WW II was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The
pilot was just the driver. And when it came to flying good bomb runs some
pilots weren't worth a ****.

And today, the pilot, navigator, bombardier and gunner may well be the same
guy.

Pete


I was born too soon. But I wouldn't have missed it for anything.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Don't let this pioot stuff go to your head. The entire purpose of a
bombing
mission in WW II was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The
pilot was just the driver. And when it came to flying good bomb runs some
pilots weren't worth a ****.


No, the purpose of a bombing mission in World War II was to put bombs on a
target. Many successful bombing missions were flown by aircraft without a
bombardier aboard at all. Many were flown by aircraft with only a pilot
aboard.

On 05 Jun 2004 00:26:48 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


Don't let this pioot stuff go to your head. The entire purpose of a bombing
mission in WW II was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The
pilot was just the driver. And when it came to flying good bomb runs some
pilots weren't worth a ****.


But, then we found out that the good ones could do it themselves---

Ed, the Pilot, Navigator, Systems Operator; EWO, Bombardier, Radio
Operator, Gunner, and other specialties as required by the mission.

Lots of pilots can fly good bomb runs.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/5/04 8:31 AM Pacific

Ed, the Pilot, Navigator, Systems Operator; EWO, Bombardier, Radio
Operator, Gunner, and other specialties as required by the mission.

You leave me speechless.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:


Ed, the Pilot, Navigator, Systems Operator; EWO, Bombardier, Radio
Operator, Gunner, and other specialties as required by the mission.

You leave me speechless.

Arthur Kramer

I know there are lots of Pilots, Navigators, Systems Operators and EWOs
still in service. Gunners and Radio Operators I believe are still flying
on specialized aircraft - What happened to the Bombardiers?

Dave