Contest participation

At 02:09 30 January 2016, Christopher Giacomo wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 9:06:21 PM UTC-5, Christopher Giacomo
wrote:
As i was looking through the pilot rankings on the SSA website tonight,
i
counted just under 500 pilots with any registration in a contest in the
last 3 years. Wiki claims that the SSA has over 10,000 members
(understand
not all of them fly

But that still means that less than 5% of active members are even showing
up to a contest? seems strange that such a large proportion of
conversation
and emphasis on RAS is focused on such a small segment of the sport.

Gliding competition is a bit like sex. Until you have done it a couple of
times it can seem a bit intimidating. The difference is you never get too
old to compete with dignity.

You have to be less elitist and simplify the rules if you want people to
try it.

as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience, I can you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'.

the only way that I know to participate in contests is to participate in contests.

What we really need is a way for people to learn about contests before actually entering one:

1. ground school -- 1 day covering eligibility, rules, launch & land procedures, strategy & tactics, traffic, equipment, etc

2. flight school -- non-competitive contests in 2-seaters

3. newbie buddies -- when you show up at a contest, team up with an experienced pilot who will be your mentor for the duration of the contest

Reno Air races has pylon school: http://airrace.org/event/racing/rookie-school/

--bob

Bob,

There are many "fun" contests held by soaring clubs around the country.
These are a good venue to "get your feet wet". Sometimes they're listed
in the back of _Soaring Magazine_. They might also be listed as "cross
country" camps. At these, there are daily safety and weather briefings
as well as assigned tasks to fly, if you choose. The Albuquerque
Soaring Club at Moriarty usually sponsors a "fun camp" when they're not
running a sanctioned contest.

Good luck!

Dan

On 1/30/2016 8:59 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience, I can you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'.

the only way that I know to participate in contests is to participate in contests.

What we really need is a way for people to learn about contests before actually entering one:

1. ground school -- 1 day covering eligibility, rules, launch & land procedures, strategy & tactics, traffic, equipment, etc

2. flight school -- non-competitive contests in 2-seaters

3. newbie buddies -- when you show up at a contest, team up with an experienced pilot who will be your mentor for the duration of the contest

Reno Air races has pylon school: http://airrace.org/event/racing/rookie-school/

--bob

--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 7:59:45 AM UTC-8, Bob Pasker wrote:
as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience, I can you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'.

the only way that I know to participate in contests is to participate in contests.

What we really need is a way for people to learn about contests before actually entering one:

1. ground school -- 1 day covering eligibility, rules, launch & land procedures, strategy & tactics, traffic, equipment, etc

2. flight school -- non-competitive contests in 2-seaters

3. newbie buddies -- when you show up at a contest, team up with an experienced pilot who will be your mentor for the duration of the contest

Reno Air races has pylon school: http://airrace.org/event/racing/rookie-school/

--bob

Good points.

Perhaps the tasks with times to finish are most intimidating to me... What's this finishing early crap? Isn't it a race?

There are likely a couple of places that do contest training in the USA. Hopefully someone will point them out.
I know that training camps are run at Lake Keepit for "Nationals" type competition and "Grand Prix" competition. Quite a few entries that you'd call "newbies" are now regular contest participants. One "newbie" recently won a day.
But I've never been within 5000 miles of participating in one.

There must be hundreds of XC pilots who have no idea what terms like MAT, start time interval, etc. are.
Jim

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, Bob Pasker wrote:
as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience,
I can you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'.

Start by volunteering as crew for an experienced pilot.
You'll learn a lot about soaring as well as contests!

Also consider training camps (I believe there's one coming
up at Seminole after the Seniors).

Have fun!
Best Regards, Dave

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, Bob Pasker wrote:
as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience, I can you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'.

the only way that I know to participate in contests is to participate in contests.

What we really need is a way for people to learn about contests before actually entering one:

1. ground school -- 1 day covering eligibility, rules, launch & land procedures, strategy & tactics, traffic, equipment, etc

2. flight school -- non-competitive contests in 2-seaters

3. newbie buddies -- when you show up at a contest, team up with an experienced pilot who will be your mentor for the duration of the contest

Reno Air races has pylon school: http://airrace.org/event/racing/rookie-school/

--bob

Hi Bob,

All that has been going on for literal decades in the Eastern US, where are you? (You don't show up on SSA.org)

Every single contest I've flown has had mentors available for the guys that want 'em, even the Nationals.

Some venues are better than others, some years are better than others, but there are a reasonable number of opportunities here for the guy who is motivated.

As far as rules complexity goes... that's a red herring. The scoring rules are complex (handicaps, devaluing for incompletions and short tasks, etc.) but the flying rules are simple enough. There's a "competition guide" which covers all you as a pilot need to know to compete without problems or penalties, that is very much simpler than the rules themselves.

best regards,

Evan Ludeman / T8

At 16:41 30 January 2016, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, Bob Pasker wrote:
as a glider pilot with some XC experience, and no contest experience, I
c=
an you what keeps me from contests: there is no 'on ramp'. =20
=20
the only way that I know to participate in contests is to participate
in
=
contests.=20
=20
What we really need is a way for people to learn about contests before
ac=
tually entering one:
=20
1. ground school -- 1 day covering eligibility, rules, launch & land
proc=
edures, strategy & tactics, traffic, equipment, etc
=20
2. flight school -- non-competitive contests in 2-seaters=20
=20
3. newbie buddies -- when you show up at a contest, team up with an
exper=
ienced pilot who will be your mentor for the duration of the contest
=20
Reno Air races has pylon school:
http://airrace.org/event/racing/rookie-s=
chool/
=20
--bob

Hi Bob,

All that has been going on for literal decades in the Eastern US, where
are=
you? (You don't show up on SSA.org)

Every single contest I've flown has had mentors available for the guys
that=
want 'em, even the Nationals.

Some venues are better than others, some years are better than others,
but
=
there are a reasonable number of opportunities here for the guy who is
moti=
vated.

As far as rules complexity goes... that's a red herring. The scoring
rules=
are complex (handicaps, devaluing for incompletions and short tasks,
etc.)=
but the flying rules are simple enough. There's a "competition guide"
whi=
ch covers all you as a pilot need to know to compete without problems or
pe=
nalties, that is very much simpler than the rules themselves.

best regards,

Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan, your argument has a massive hole in it. Ask yourself why, if these
great things have 'been going on for literal decades', there is still a
problem?

For both OLC Camps and Traditional Race Contests:

What is PowerFlarm deployment rate?

Does it vary by contest/region?

Do some classes of contest have higher or lower deployment rates?

Does PowerFlarm have more value (real or perceived) in Western vs. Eastern regions?

Does mandatory PowerFlarm keep some people away?

Does non-mandatory PowerFlarm keep some people away?

Does low deployment rate of PowerFlarm at a contest keep people away?

Has Powerflarm been deployed widely at any clubs/contests/classes preemptively before a midair occurs?

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 6:30:04 AM UTC-5, Jim White wrote:

Evan, your argument has a massive hole in it. Ask yourself why, if these
great things have 'been going on for literal decades', there is still a
problem?

Hi Jim,

Mine wasn't an "argument", it's a provable statement.

Anyone that's attended the mandatory pilots' safety meeting at *any* US contest the last 20 years saw the CD ask for a show of hands for racers new to that venue -- those guys get a mentor *assigned*. You can refuse of course, but my point is: you don't even need to ask. Mentors I have had include Hank Nixon, John Seymour, Doug Jacobs, Ken Sorenson, Rick Walters... the very best of the best. All of these guys were fantastic to work with. I just wish I were a sharper student!

Numerous racing clinics have been held. I'm aware of week long clinics run by Doug Jacobs and Karl Striedieck, I know that there have been others. I was able to sit in on a couple of days with Doug and G Dale at Sugarbush in 2004 and it was intense, well focused, superb. I can't rattle off dates or numbers, but these are not terribly *un*common.

Karl Striedieck has been hopping back seat rides in his Duo at contests all over the country for the last decade. I don't believe the P2 ordinarily gets to do any flying, but you do get to see what goes on in Striedieck-world first hand, and guys I know that have taken the opportunity give it two thumbs up.

Lately (last 5 - 6 years) "Bus" classes have started running at regionals in the Northeast. Experienced guys bring the club K-21 or G-103 to a regional and rotate their students through the front seat on racing days. All backed up with ground school, of course.

My point is: The help and encouragement is there for the taking. What I can't do is freely distribute the motivation to jump on the offer and make it stick. Clearly, the one word reason for declining participation is "motivation". Addressing that is a different thread.

Best regards & see y'all at a competition next year.

Evan Ludeman / T8

PS. Just casually watching who's buying what in 2015 - 16, I see a bunch of 20m and larger two seat gliders getting purchased by guys with many decades of single seat XC and racing experience. Two that I know pretty well have made clear that their *main* purpose for doing this was to see if they could push some new pilots past their initial trepidation and into XC flying.. I suspect others are thinking similar thoughts. Opportunity in 2016 abounds.

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 10:19:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
My point is: The help and encouragement is there for the taking. What I can't do is freely distribute the motivation to jump on the offer and make it stick. Clearly, the one word reason for declining participation is "motivation".

I don't think its simply motivation.

as I tried to point in in my most recent post which lists the XC training programs I've found as a result of this thread, there is a gap between what is available and what is known to be available.

the SSA and event organizers can do a better job of getting the word out.

--b