For Keith Willshaw...

Den wrote:

Pearl Harbor was only allowed to happen to realize above given broader
political goals.

Allow a major part of our fleet to be damaged or sunk, lose countless bases and
thousands of POWs and civilians in the Pacific to the Japanese, in order to do
*what* to Hitler? He declared war on us, not the other way around. Does your
statement make sense to you?

BTW the killing of their own or allowing others to kill Americans to
realize broder political goals is a traditional American PSYOP and
usually it works.

Remember Maine

A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for
rumor-mongers? Goebbels would be so proud.

Remember Pearl Harbor

We do. Its been dissected and examined under thousands of literary microscopes
- and you know what? It was the Japanese that attacked us. Who knew?

Remember 9/11

I remember it well. Not your version of it, but what really happened. People
who hated us used our open society to their advantage and made us pay greatly
for our previous freedoms. No where during that event was there any occurance
that match your criteria of Americans killing Americans for political gain.

Gordon

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...



Whatever happened to bubble and squeak?


Its a bit passe these days but the older generation
still cook it, my mother is an expert, and as an
ex WW2 seems to remember the Yanks all too well

Keith

Subject: For Keith Willshaw...
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 6/7/04 4:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...



Whatever happened to bubble and squeak?


Its a bit passe these days but the older generation
still cook it, my mother is an expert, and as an
ex WW2 seems to remember the Yanks all too well

Keith


With some degree of fondness I hope.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Which never happened since nobody knew this.
Please none of the 'they broke the codes' bull****.

The IJN didnt transmit the details of this operation,
it was hand carried and the fleet maintained radio silence

No,Sir almost everbody in Washington DC,but surely the names mentioned above as
all them were informed about attack by Col.Bratton and Thurman personaly.
On Nov.28 They officially informed Hull,Stimson and Knox about japanese fleets
target.They did not respond.
On eve of Pearl Harbor attack the same team intercepted and decipher the famous
message to Nomura.
Thurman took the message immediately to Adm.Kramer.He took the message but did
not do anything.
Thurman tried to contact Stark,Turner and Marshall,no avail, apparently nobody
in Washington DC wants to do something to prevent Pearl Harbor.
As last resort Thurman went directly to White House with a car driven by his
wife and wanted to speak with FDR directly.
But instead of FDR he was ablr to speak to Harry Hopkins.

So,Mr.Willshaw after Nov.28 Pearl Harbor attack was not surprise attack to
anybody in Washington DC,it was a very welcomed opportunity.
In other words,Washington was decided to make it happen for domestic politics.

Kimmel was fired, I really dont see him staying
silent in such a situation.

Firing is not a very heavy punishment form

Allow a major part of our fleet to be damaged or sunk, lose countless bases
and
thousands of POWs and civilians in the Pacific to the Japanese, in order to
do
*what* to Hitler? He declared war on us, not the other way around. Does your

A small price to pay to turn a giant isolationist country into a British ally.
You can not make an omelette without breaking eggs.

A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for
rumor-mongers? Goebbels would be so proud.

Actually I forgat Ft.Sumter another US (Union) PSYOP.
Please go to your local library and check out Newspapers and Journal dated
prior to Spanish-American War.
What they all report?
Do they say"OK ,Spanians have nothing to do with Maine disaster" or,
"Remember Maine,Teach a lesson to Spain" which one?

"Remember Maine" was US battle cry before and during Spanish-US war.

It does not matter if you say hundred years later
"It was a coal explosion Spanians were not responsible for it"
This explosion has been used by US establishment to justify an empire building
war and mobilize population.
BTW its still not clear why Maine exploded only thing that we know clearly now
is that the Spanians had no role to playin her fate.

We do. Its been dissected and examined under thousands of literary
microscopes
- and you know what? It was the Japanese that attacked us. Who knew?

After Nov.28 almost everbody in US establishment,but they waited and made it
happen. remember it well. Not your version of it, but what really happened.
People
who hated us used our open society to their advantage and made us pay greatly
for our previous freedoms. No where during that event was there any
occurance
that match your criteria of Americans killing Americans for political gain.

Gordon

Surely you also believe that Reichstag were burned down by communist fanatics
and Polen attacked Third Reich.

Subject: For Keith Willshaw...
From: Glenfiddich
Date: 6/7/04 9:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 07 Jun 2004 20:05:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
...
Whatever happened to bubble and squeak?

Well, my family's recipe transplanted well and is thriving
nicely here in my Queens kitchen.
We also put up some quite passable pickled onions.



All washed down with a wee dram of Glenfiddich of course. (:- ))

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Which never happened since nobody knew this.
Please none of the 'they broke the codes' bull****.

The IJN didnt transmit the details of this operation,
it was hand carried and the fleet maintained radio silence

No,Sir almost everbody in Washington DC,but surely the names mentioned
above as
all them were informed about attack by Col.Bratton and Thurman personaly.
On Nov.28 They officially informed Hull,Stimson and Knox about japanese
fleets
target.They did not respond.


A tough trick since Japanese approval for the attack
didnt come until Dec 3rd. What happened on Nov 28th was
the decryption of the winds code message sent on Nov 19th
This spoke of breaking off diplomatic warnings.

As a result Kimmel and Short were sent a message that
began "This is to be considered a war warning"

On eve of Pearl Harbor attack the same team intercepted and decipher the
famous
message to Nomura.

Which said nothing about an attack of any sort

Thurman took the message immediately to Adm.Kramer.He took the message but
did
not do anything.
Thurman tried to contact Stark,Turner and Marshall,no avail, apparently
nobody
in Washington DC wants to do something to prevent Pearl Harbor.

So which is it ?

Did he try to contact people or do nothing ?

As last resort Thurman went directly to White House with a car driven by
his
wife and wanted to speak with FDR directly.
But instead of FDR he was ablr to speak to Harry Hopkins.


Indeed , carrying the following message

http://ibiblio.org/pha/myths/14_part.html

So,Mr.Willshaw after Nov.28 Pearl Harbor attack was not surprise attack to
anybody in Washington DC,it was a very welcomed opportunity.
In other words,Washington was decided to make it happen for domestic
politics.


Read the actual message old boy, the most warlike statement
in the thing is

"The Japanese Government regrets to have to notify hereby the
American Government that in view of the attitude of the American
Government it cannot but consider that it is impossible to reach
an agreement through further negotiations."

Hardly a blueprint of the Pearl Harbor attack plan.


Kimmel was fired, I really dont see him staying
silent in such a situation.

Firing is not a very heavy punishment form

For you I'm sure thats true.

Keith




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nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message ...

Remember Maine

A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for
rumor-mongers?

Sure evil Spaniards did that.

http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Lesson_60_Notes.htm

Goebbels would be so proud.

He learned a lot from Hearst.

"You furnish the pictures...I'll furnish the war!"

Regards

VV

As a result Kimmel and Short were sent a message that
began "This is to be considered a war warning"

They also added that Pearl Harbor was only possible target.period.

So which is it ?
Did he try to contact people or do nothing

Do you think that Navy and Army units in Pasific were alerted and waiting for
Japanase to attack?

Hardly a blueprint of the Pearl Harbor attack plan.

You could only say that if officers of US military intelligence had NOT told to
their superiors cleary "Target is Pearl Harbor" but they did say exactly that
since Nov,28.
So since Nov,28 they knew the target thanks to work of a few men.
Since their superiors did not respond to their warnings one of
them,Thurman,sidestepped the line of command and personaly went all way up to
White House,with very clear warning of japanase attack with the name of the
target "Pearl Harbor".

For you I'm sure thats true.


Put the blame on Guetenberg and also countless creators of the "
Information Age".

In message , Keith Willshaw
writes
I dont doubt that they'll further enliven the healthy
mongrel population of Britain. Just as did the Celts,
Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Hugenots
etc etc etc.

Hybrid vigour

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk