Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve

In article ,
(WalterM140) wrote:

Agreed. Bush used family influence to get into and out of the guard.

Did he? I find no evidence of either, t

He jumped a 500 person waiting list. There's no issue over whether Bush got
preferential treatment. The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

Walt

And all 500 of those people were qualified to be an F-102 pilot?
Just because you're on the bottom of the list doesn't mean you are not
the first qualified for a position, and willing to leave on their
training schedule.

KeithK wrote:
In article ,
(WalterM140) wrote:

Agreed. Bush used family influence to get into and out of the guard.

Did he? I find no evidence of either, t

He jumped a 500 person waiting list. There's no issue over whether Bush got
preferential treatment. The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

Walt

And all 500 of those people were qualified to be an F-102 pilot?
Just because you're on the bottom of the list doesn't mean you are not
the first qualified for a position, and willing to leave on their
training schedule.

The odds are that at least 50 or more would have scored higher than the 25th
%ile in the aptitude test. He had no special qualifications to fly an F-102,
much less than any other jet or other powered aircraft. You don't seriously
believe that not one of those five hundred above him on the waiting list
wouldn't have given an arm or a leg for the opportunity to get into pilot
training. Anybody who thinks that is deluding himself.

George Z.

George wrote:
The odds are that at least 50 or more would have scored higher than the 25th
%ile in the aptitude test. He had no special qualifications to fly an F-102,
much less than any other jet or other powered aircraft. You don't seriously
believe that not one of those five hundred above him on the waiting list
wouldn't have given an arm or a leg for the opportunity to get into pilot
training. Anybody who thinks that is deluding himself.


I doubt that he got any more consideration than the son of the civil service
secretary in Group HQ or the son of the SMSgt Maintenace supervisor in the CAM
Sqdn or the Airlift Sqdn CO's next door neighbor's son (who mowed the CO's law
for 6 years while in grade school and Jr Hi.)

He definitely got more consideration than most guys off the street or the goofy
kid from the local teacher's college or the local Penecostal preacher's kid.

He probably didn't get as much consideration as the All State QB who was going
to the same school as the State Adjudant General. "We'll talk about teaching
you to fly later son, Hell we'll even make you an officer."

oxmoron1
MFE

The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

He clearly did. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

What kind of pathological paranoia causes people to take these
positions?

(I notice it largely comes from people I've already kill-filed, so
evidently it has been apparent for some little time.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

He clearly did. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

What kind of pathological paranoia causes people to take these
positions?


The facts do. Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.

His certificate of service, while characterizing the nature of service as being
honorable, shows he only served 5 years, 4 months and 5 days of a six year
commitment.

What -you- need to show is that Bush did not receive favorable treatment. But
you can't show that, because the Republican smear/cover-up campaign is is full
swing.

You'd think the Bush partisans would have enough sense to just let this drop.

Senator Kerry is a highly decorated WIA veteran of the Viet Nam war, who
volunteered both for the war and for hazardous duty.

The best case scenario for Bush is that he just slid by and did the absolute
-minimum- possible to maintain his commitment -- which he clearly took in order
to avoid the draft.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

The facts do.


The facts indicate Bush fulfilled his service commitment.



Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.


At least one did.

Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.


At least one did.


Trudeau donated the money to the USO.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Trudeau donated the money to the USO.


Did Trudeau make the donation in the name of John Calhoun or did he renege
on his promise?

From: (WalterM140)


The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.

He clearly did. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

What kind of pathological paranoia causes people to take these
positions?


The facts do. Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.

This proves what? People have come forward saying they saw him there. If it
were me I wouldn't accept the money.


His certificate of service, while characterizing the nature of service as
being
honorable, shows he only served 5 years, 4 months and 5 days of a six year
commitment.

Kerry also took an early out. Many people do. I took teriminal leave and
permissive TDY adding up to over 4 months. Does this mean I was let out early?


What -you- need to show is that Bush did not receive favorable treatment.
But
you can't show that, because the Republican smear/cover-up campaign is is
full
swing.

Ah yes, the "vast right wing conspiracy." Can you prove factually he did
receive special treatment? I mean something beyound "he was the son of a rich
oil man" or some such drivel.


You'd think the Bush partisans would have enough sense to just let this drop.

The people who keep bringing it up are on the other side. Read the thread name.


Senator Kerry is a highly decorated WIA veteran of the Viet Nam war, who
volunteered both for the war and for hazardous duty.

No one has argued that. Funny how the Kerry supporters always bring that up any
time he is criticised about any thing includeing his voting record in the
Senate, isn't it? For every man in the field in Viet Nam there was another
dozen or so in country who wasn't. Was there service any less honourable or
important than theirs?

The best case scenario for Bush is that he just slid by and did the absolute
-minimum- possible to maintain his commitment -- which he clearly took in
order
to avoid the draft.

Walt

OK, by my volunteering for active duty I avoided the draft too as did all the
other volunteers.

Since guardsmen and reservists DID serve in Viet Nam Bush was at risk. I have
an idea take a look at the number of reservists and guardsmen killed in Viet
Nam. You will find their names on the wall in D.C. if you care to look.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...

Kerry also took an early out. Many people do. I took teriminal leave and
permissive TDY adding up to over 4 months. Does this mean I was let
out early?


" I am saddened by the fact that Vietnam has yet again been inserted into
the
campaign, and that it has been inserted in what I feel to be the worst
possible way. By that I mean that yesterday, during this Presidential
campaign, and even throughout recent times, Vietnam has been discussed and
written about without an adequate statement of its full meaning."

"We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have
personally always believed that many served in many different ways. Someone
who was deeply against the war in 1969 or 1970 may well have served their
country with equal passion and patriotism by opposing the war as by fighting
in it. Are we now, 20 years or 30 years later, to forget the difficulties of
that time, of families that were literally torn apart, of brothers who
ceased to talk to brothers, of fathers who disowned their sons, of people
who felt compelled to leave the country and forget their own future and turn
against the will of their own aspirations?"

Senator John Kerry, Jan 30, 1992