Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:39:44 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his
men
and warship to win the medals?

Isn't it hilarious how "stupidly and recklessly" impressed the awarding
authorities so much that they approved the award of a Silver Star and a
Bronze
Star to him? But what do those jerks know, right? They were just Navy
captains
and admirals.

George Z.

Dare we bring up LBJ's Silver Star?

When did you start needing my permission? But why do you want to compare a
Texas congressman on active duty with a 23 year old boat driver who, at that
point, had no markers out that he could call on for somebody to run interference
for him? Other than the piece of hardware that evolved, aren't they apples and
oranges? One was a field grade officer with political clout and the other a
green company grade guy. Or am I not remembering it right?

George Z.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:22:48 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:39:44 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his
men and warship to win the medals?

Isn't it hilarious how "stupidly and recklessly" impressed the awarding
authorities so much that they approved the award of a Silver Star and a
Bronze Star to him? But what do those jerks know, right? They were just Navy
captains and admirals.
George Z.

Dare we bring up LBJ's Silver Star?

When did you start needing my permission? But why do you want to compare a
Texas congressman on active duty with a 23 year old boat driver who, at that
point, had no markers out that he could call on for somebody to run interference
for him? Other than the piece of hardware that evolved, aren't they apples and
oranges? One was a field grade officer with political clout and the other a
green company grade guy. Or am I not remembering it right?

George Z.

I think you aren't remembering it right. LBJ's service was hardly
"active duty" and the SS mission was absurd.

My point was that medals vary. There are a lot of heroic events that
gain no award and a lot of awards that followed minimalist events.

My opinion has always been that medals are often the result of being
in the wrong place at the right time and then doing something stupid.
I'll freely admit that my Silver Star came for a mission that I
shouldn't have even launched on. But, I survived, the target was hit
and a fortuitous positioning of another bird with a strike camera
provided the evidence.

I might add, though, that my SS is in the box and hasn't been thrown
over any fences. You can tell it is mine, because my name is engraved
on the back--which is what they do for presentation.

Many have been questioning the circumstances of Kerry's award, but
that isn't the point of emphasis in my criticism of the man. My gripe
is his conduct afterward which was clearly for political gain and at
the expense of a lot of his "brothers" who were defamed by his
statements.

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, and served
honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than Kerry.
Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends
of the opposite.




Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, and served
honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than Kerry.
Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends
of the opposite.

Ed...to a lot of these people, just being there makes you guilty of a 'war
crime'.

Pete

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:15:41 GMT, "Pete" wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, and served
honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than Kerry.
Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends
of the opposite.

Ed...to a lot of these people, just being there makes you guilty of a 'war
crime'.

Pete

And, those people don't mean squat to me. The ones that count are the
ones who know what went on during those times.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 7:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:15:41 GMT, "Pete" wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, and served
honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than Kerry.
Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends
of the opposite.

Ed...to a lot of these people, just being there makes you guilty of a 'war
crime'.

Pete

And, those people don't mean squat to me. The ones that count are the
ones who know what went on during those times.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war?

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war?

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war?

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"

How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who lost his
war?

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war?

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION

"Lisakbernacchia" wrote in message
...

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while
Kerry was
at war?


No.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:22:48 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:39:44 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Did you also know that Mr. Kerry also stupidly and recklessly risked his
men and warship to win the medals?

Isn't it hilarious how "stupidly and recklessly" impressed the awarding
authorities so much that they approved the award of a Silver Star and a
Bronze Star to him? But what do those jerks know, right? They were just
Navy captains and admirals.
George Z.

Dare we bring up LBJ's Silver Star?

When did you start needing my permission? But why do you want to compare a
Texas congressman on active duty with a 23 year old boat driver who, at that
point, had no markers out that he could call on for somebody to run
interference for him? Other than the piece of hardware that evolved,
aren't they apples and oranges? One was a field grade officer with
political clout and the other a green company grade guy. Or am I not
remembering it right?

George Z.

I think you aren't remembering it right. LBJ's service was hardly
"active duty" and the SS mission was absurd.

No argument there on either account. My point was that something like that
could and obviously did happen because the person involved had considerable
political clout and used it to get what he wanted.

My point was that medals vary. There are a lot of heroic events that
gain no award and a lot of awards that followed minimalist events.

No argument there, either. So let's take SSs, both his and yours, off the table
for discussion. Don't ask anyone to defend his and you don't need to defend
yours.

(Snip)
......My gripe is his conduct afterward which was clearly for political gain
and at
the expense of a lot of his "brothers" who were defamed by his statements.

You've articulated the views of those in opposition to his politics admirably.
Unfortunately, there are two sides to every coin and facts are only rarely
absolute. Those who agree with his politics might just as convincingly argue
that what he did was with the sincere intention of saving American lives by
getting our nation out of a war that we clearly were never going to win.

I committed no atrocities, am guilty of no war crimes, .....

If, in your entire career flying bomb-carrying combat aircraft, you ever
jettisoned your bomb load for whatever reason on other than your assigned
bona-fide target (let's say in a free fire zone), there are some who might make
the argument that you most certainly did commit either an atrocity or a war
crime if your bombs landed on innocent enemy civilians. I personally don't care
to pursue that point, but you ought not be shocked to learn that some people
might, and they're not necessarily unpatriotic because they feel that way.

.....and served honorably for a considerably longer period of combat than
Kerry.

Length of service is supposed to prove what? That your two years was worth more
than the poor sod who stepped on a land mine his first day in theater and lost
two legs and an arm? Length of service ought play no part in the equation, and
I can't help but think that you must be getting a little desperate if you feel
obliged to introduce it into the discussion.

Please don't expect me to like a man who has accused me and my friends of the
opposite.

I don't expect you to like him, and you obviously don't. That's always been
your privilege and it remains so. And it's everybody else's privilege as well.

George Z.